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Skin Care Regimen - Please help and comment

 
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puppychew



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Skin Care Regimen - Please help and comment Reply with quote

Hello, I have read so much information that my head is spinning. I especially like the Infopacks offered on this site! As a result, the following is a regimen I put together. Im looking for any feedback or suggestions. I'm sorry if this is long but I really want to cover all bases and reverse aging as much as possible and delay any future signs. Thanks.

My Profile:
Male. Im middle aged. I have lines around eyes and crows feet, and lines on the forehead. Theres some sag to skin. No acne. Light even skin tone. I am thin w a gaunt appearance. I also get Botox.

Prior experience: glycolic acid 10%, stryvectin sd - no noticable improvements.

******************
sugar scrub - 2 times a week
******************************
CLEANSE morning / night
******************************
TONE
- nothing planned since I don't really understand the purpose except for a second cleaning. I thought it is for removing womens make-up that was not removed by Cleanser

If not - any recommendations?

******************************
EXFOLIATE

steps:
1a. Glycolic Acid 20% face - morning/night (to stimulate collagen)

1b. Glycolic Acid 10% eyes, neck - morning/night

2. Coper Peptide - eyes, face morning/night

3. Niacinamide 2% face, eyes morning / night (to improve hydration)
(Home-made)

4. DMAE face, eyes, neck morning / night (to reduce skin sag)
(Home-made)
****************************
MOISTURIZE- SEAL
Aveno Positively Raidant Daily Moisturizer w SPF 30 - face, eyes

***************************
PROTECT
SPF in moisturizer above.
*************************

QUESTIONS:

1. I may get a prescription for Retin-A. That would replace the Gycolic Acid step correct?

2. The above home-made products must contain a base cream. I am unsure what to use. The base cream on ThePersonalFormulator.com site contains Dimethicone. To my understanding, this is good to have in a cream to seal in the moisture. However, using this in an Exfoliation stage would block the next product from entering the skin. Is this correct?

3. Do I need to increase the strength of exfoliating products since the addition of each product especially the moisturizer will dilute/weaken that which is on my skin?

4. How long should I wait before applying the next product?

5. For the products above, is there a site you would recommend for purchasing?

6. Is there anything I should watch out for or are they basically the same?


Thanking you in advance, Ken

:D
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George



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 46
Location: Gainesville, VA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ken -

I have some comments for you to consider, but remember, without seeing you and fully understanding your current skin conditions, these are still just general thoughts... I am treating this as a hypothetical - take (or don't take) any/all advice with that in mind...


Quote:
sugar scrub - 2 times a week


You have a lot of exfoliation going on. I would consider eliminating completely or using an abrasive scrub only once in a while. Glycolic (or any AHA) will do the same thing, so this is extra. Too much exfoliation can overstimulate and cause more oil production. I see this a LOT - dry flakes on top of oily skin...

Quote:
CLEANSE morning / night


Great - just make sure you're using a very gentle cleanser. Or - see my notes below re: glycolics...

Quote:
TONE nothing planned since I don't really understand the purpose except for a second cleaning. I thought it is for removing womens make-up that was not removed by Cleanser


There is another use for toner (the reason I use one) - to add moisture. Just as some toners may help clean off residue, some may help provide an extra level of hydration. For example, you can use a toner containing hyaluronic acid that will help maintain hydration. A good Hyaluronic acid toner can sometimes be used in place of a moisturizer. This would depend on your current skin conditions.

Quote:
EXFOLIATE
steps:
1a. Glycolic Acid 20% face - morning/night (to stimulate collagen)


I believe a 20% every day is way too much. To my knowledge AHA's have not been shown to stimulate collagen production. Rather, the alpha hydroxy acid will remove the outermost layer of dead skin and dried oils and "gunk." :D

How/how often I recommend using this depends on the product. If you have a professional 20% glycolic peel, 1x or 2x a week is all you should be doing. However, if you have a 20% AHA solution (like that found in MD Forte Facial Cleanaser III), you can use it more often - every day if your skin tolerates it.

If you like the way AHA keeps your skin looking and feeling, I would consider an AHA line. Like this: Use MD Forte Facial Cleanser III as your cleanser. Follow with MD Forte I Facial Cream. The cleanser contains a mix of AHA's that will exfoliate, but won't be as harsh as a professional gel/peel. The Cream is a great way to maintain the soft/texture from AHA, in a formula that can be used regularly.

**I recommend MD Forte along with TONS of other products - this is not some special endorsement, the products just happen to fit this situation. Any glycolic line would work...

Quote:
1b. Glycolic Acid 10% eyes, neck - morning/night


See above...

Quote:
2. Coper Peptide - eyes, face morning/night


This is fine - I usually recommend that supplemental treatments (those outside of CTMP) are used one at a time. So if you're going to try a copper peptide, try it for 6-8 weeks and if you don't see the results, move on to another supplemental.

Quote:
3. Niacinamide 2% face, eyes morning / night (to improve hydration) (Home-made)


This is a place where you could substitute a Hyaluronic acid based toner. Remember - alcohol free, fragrance free, avoid witch hazel, citrus, peppermint and all other irritants in your toner choice.

Quote:
4. DMAE face, eyes, neck morning / night (to reduce skin sag)
(Home-made)


See notes on Copper Peptide...

Quote:
MOISTURIZE- SEAL
Aveno Positively Raidant Daily Moisturizer w SPF 30 - face, eyes


Sounds fine, unless replaced with an AHA moisturizer (see notes on MD Forte facial cream above)


Quote:
QUESTIONS:

1. I may get a prescription for Retin-A. That would replace the Gycolic Acid step correct?


No - this is not a replacement. Retin A (trentinoin) is form of vitamin A that will unplug follicles to help prevent acne and has been shown to reduce wrinkles as well. AHA (glycolic) is an exfoliant, pure and simple. It will not penetrate the pore.

Quote:
2. The above home-made products must contain a base cream. I am unsure what to use. The base cream on ThePersonalFormulator.com site contains Dimethicone. To my understanding, this is good to have in a cream to seal in the moisture. However, using this in an Exfoliation stage would block the next product from entering the skin. Is this correct?


I am not an expert on home made products - I will defer to one of the many talented people here for this question.

Quote:
3. Do I need to increase the strength of exfoliating products since the addition of each product especially the moisturizer will dilute/weaken that which is on my skin?


As your regimen currently stands, my opinion is that you ar exfoliating too much! You may consider a 1x per month professionally adminstered glycolic peel at 30-40%. See notes above on Glycolics...

Quote:
4. How long should I wait before applying the next product?


During your regimen, just complete each step, pat dry very gently and move on. In terms of your macro-cycle, I would try a regimen and supplementals for 60 days before changing, unless a reaction occurs.

Quote:
5. For the products above, is there a site you would recommend for purchasing?


I use the skinstore.com almost exclusively. Please note that I do get affiliate commissions from them (I'm not linked here - don't worry). Though even if I didn't, I would still recommend them. Their shopping cart is easy to use, their site layout is excellent, they have a 115% price guarantee, their customer service is great, and their selection is second to none. The only sites that even come close are sephora.com and beauty.com, but those sites (to me) are more difficult to navigate and they do not focus on skincare - they also have a huge selection of makeup and peripherals (great if that's what your after).

Quote:
6. Is there anything I should watch out for or are they basically the same?


Not sure what your referring to - if you're referring to where to shop... yes, watch out for restrictive return policies and bad info! There are sites out there with info presented by untrained personnel, who have no business discussing skincare. :D :D

Good luck!!

George
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puppychew



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you George and Virgo for your response. Please be patient with me. I really appreciate your help.

I think I am getting confused since I am basing my regimen on the categories (Cleanse, Tone, Exfoliate, Seal/moisturize. Protect.) It seems products I think belong in a certain category cross over. AHA(Glycolic Acid) which I thought was used in the Exfoliate category can be used in all categories. Supplemental products, Copper P. DMAE, etc. all seem to have different benefits but only one should be used at a time. It's hard to choose when it seems like you need all of them.

Let me take a step back.
Cleansing step - gently cleans the skin. This is an easy one.

Toning cleans your skin more and also adds moisture. Shouldn't adding moisture be done after exfoliation? The first time I heard of Niacinamide was on Dr. T's Eye Care infopack with the receipe in the DIY infopack. It says it helps the skin improve hydration. You mention that this can be substituted with a Hyaluronic acid based toner.
Can you recommend a toner?

Exfoliating step is to use AHA to remove dead skin. I always thought that AHA should sting a bit, and that its main purpose was to stimulate your skin to produce collagen. I thought it was an alternative to a vitamin C. ( I have been using AHA for about 2 yrs from a plastic surgeon - it's at least 10%). It seems like this is an important step. Would using a cleanser w AHA, only to be quickly washed off with water, be as beneficial?

DMAE is good for facial sag. Can I also include this in my regimen?
It seems that a lot is done in previous steps to prep the skin but not much is done to feed it.

Moisturize step. I thought the step of moisturizing was not to hydrate or add moisture to your skin, but to seal in moisture. What benefit would AHA have? I have some AHA 20% that contains Dimethylamine. To my understanding Dimethylamine is supposed to seal in moisture. If it is in an AHA solution, does that mean there is no need for a moisturizer?

It seems the more I read the more confused I get. I spent hours studying Dr. Denese's products. I gave up since there are so many and I couldn't follow her plan except to try to sell her customers everything. I wish this could all be more simple.

thanks so much, Ken
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puppychew



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, the doctor would prefer that I have professional peels and purchase their products. I don't think that the professional peels are necessary with the products available on the market. I've been using their AHA etc. but haven't seen a difference. I don't think it's strong enough - I don't feel any sting. Do you see any results from DMAE?

ken
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rlguy



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm looking to create my own regimen, similar to Ken.

I'm confused about the purpose of exfoliation, however. Is it to simply slough off dead skin cells or does it actually promote collagen regeneration?

When should exfoliation be done in the regimen? Before toning, after toning? What exactly is toning, anyway?

Also, what benefits are there to having AHAs, such as glycolic acid, in the moisturizing phase of the regimen. I'm not sure whether I should use an glycolic acid exfoliation pad, like Dr Denese promotes and sells, or use a moisturizing cream with a high percentage of glycolic acid in it ( 10 - 15%).

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I seem to be going around in circles with this stuff.
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George



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 46
Location: Gainesville, VA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm confused about the purpose of exfoliation, however. Is it to simply slough off dead skin cells or does it actually promote collagen regeneration?


Exfoliation removes the outermost layer of deadskin cells and any residue/deposits that have built up on the skin surface. This action does a few things...

- It will tend to lighten any hyperpigmentation. Age spots look darker as hyperpigmented skin cells build on top of one another - removing the top layer helps to lighten them.
- It will make your skin look and feel smoother. Because the top layer is often"bumpy" and uneven looking, removing this layer will give your skin a nice look/feel.
- Removing the gunk (a technical term) :) will allow the pore to function properly, and will help to keep acne at bay. (For ance treatments you should use a BHA, not and AHA - a topic for another discussion.)
- This exfoliation does not produce new collagen.

Quote:
When should exfoliation be done in the regimen? Before toning, after toning? What exactly is toning, anyway?


- Exfoliate after cleansing before toning.
- Depending on teh ingredients of the toner, it will do one of two things: Either act like a "cleansers cleanser" removing any buildup or residue from your clenaser or exfoliant, or act as a hydration agent or added moisturizer. Toners w/ Hyaluronic acid, for example, will provide a base level of moisture, which in some cases can even be used in place of a moicturizer. Toners will act in one of thes etwo ways in some degree depending on ingredients, which have a huge variation from product to product. If I know your skin conditions, I can give you a few toners to try...

Quote:
Also, what benefits are there to having AHAs, such as glycolic acid, in the moisturizing phase of the regimen. I'm not sure whether I should use an glycolic acid exfoliation pad, like Dr Denese promotes and sells, or use a moisturizing cream with a high percentage of glycolic acid in it ( 10 - 15%).


This allows you to get the benefits without a harsh application. Yes - other ingredients "buffer" the action of the aha. I've had lots of clients have great results using an AHA-based moisturizer.
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puppychew



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks your responses - this is clearing up a lot of my confusion. AHA is to remove all the dead skin so you have a clean slate to work with and your skin will better absorb what you next apply. I would imagine that AHA is best applied with a pad or cotton to wipe dead skin away, not to just move it around on the skin.

What I read on this site was that AHA can rebuild the skin and that studies showed a 25% increase in skin thickness. Therefore I thought that I was all set using my Glycolic Acid.

Actually, I am currently using 20% - I bought it from rejuvamed.com a few years ago, then started using something else, now I'm back to it. Since the seller is no longer in business, I'm not really sure what I have. It's 20% but I dont feel any sting to know it's working. The ingredients are water, glycolic acid, ammonium glycolate, propylene glycol, hydroxyethylcelulose, cholesterol, isopropyl palmitate, peg 40 stearate, magnesium aluminum silicate,cetyl alcohol, sorbitan sterate,stearamidopropl dimethylamine,stearic acid, isostearic acid, glycerl stearate, peg-100 sterate, dimethicone and tetasodium edta.

If I'm understanding correctly, the TONER step is where you build, repair, or feed the skin. Is this where I could use DMAE? (I also chose DMAE since Dr. T provided DIY receipe) What can I use to not only correct, but prevent skin sag and fine lines? (I have very clear skin, not oily or dry, just starting to show aging)

thanks, ken
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rlguy



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good question about the DMAE, Ken. Is this ingredient typically added to moisturizers? In the DIY infopak, I think it said to add this to your base cream (the moisturizer?). It's also suggested to add Lipoic acid with DMAE. Does anyone have experience with this combination?
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puppychew



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi George, Dr. Todorov, etc.

Referring back to my previous post regarding AHA:

What is the difference between thickening of the dermis and epidermis which AHA does, vs rebuilding collagen like Vitamin C.

Is C considered a toner?


Ken
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