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Matrixyl, 6 month report - NO RESULT!

 
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:30 pm    Post subject: Matrixyl, 6 month report - NO RESULT! Reply with quote

Duration of study: November 2004 - April 2005 (6 months)
Matrixyl source: www.thepersonalformulator.com
Concentration: 5ppm corresponding to 5% of the personal formulator solution
Vehicle: I simply rarefy the matrixyl solution with water. Nothing else added.
Application: with a spray on my face, especially around my eyes 1-2 times daily.
New batches: A 20ml batch every week.

Notes:

0. I am a 32 years old male. Used to have acne, now I have oily/combination skin with ocassional breakouts, bumps when I eat too oily food. My pores get clogged from almost any cream except ones with silicone bases. My skin is very sensitive (gets red in 10 mins) to harsh chemicals like acids (normal form of vit C, glycolic, sallicylic ...). Also I have enlarged pores in the t-zone, surface capillars in the t-zone, and initial crows feet around my eyes.

1. My Matrixyl formulation led to NO REDUCTION of my crows feet whatsoever. NO REDUCTION of the horizontal lines on my forehead. Both types of wrinkle are not deep at all, just barely visible.

2. There are anecdotal reports that the Olay's Regenerist that contains Matrixyl leads to VISUAL reduction of wrinkles soon after the first application. And so does EVERY GOOD MAKEUP! The silicones in Regenerist will fill in small wrinkles making them more invisible, will make your skin soft and matte and young looking. If you read between the lines of the consumers reports, these are exactly the effects they are describing. There isn't a single report about how your skin looks without the cream on, on the contrary there are several that claim no wrinkle reduction after 6 months (including my own report).

3. Possible explanations why Matrixyl didn't have any effect:

(A) Matrixyl doesn't have any effect, no matter in what formulation.

(B) The personal formulator Matrixyl is deteriorated or is not Matrixyl at all.

(C) My wrinkles are motion-wrinkles due to facial expressions (like squinting) and not to weak collagen. In that case Matrixyl can't do anything about it.

(D) My simple water formulation does not preserve Matrixyl - it deteriorates from the moment of dissolving it or soon after that.

(E) My simple water formulation doesn't provide enough absorbtion of Matrixyl.


It would be helpfull if other people share their experience with Matrixyl.

Dr. Todorov, what do you think about (C) (D) and (E)?
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Shari
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Matrixyl Reply with quote

I haven't noticed any visible reduction in the wrinkles on my forehead and around my eyes since I started using Matrixyl from PF 3 months ago. I put the matrixyl in a lotion base that I already had on hand and have been applying it in the am and at bed time. I mixed it at the 5ppm recommended at the PF website. Personally, I think it hasn't worked for me because they are motion wrinkles, squinting, scowling etc. I still have more of the lotion left and will continue to use it but I can't say that I am impressed.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Matrixyl, 6 month report - NO RESULT! Reply with quote

orangehrzn wrote:

(C) My wrinkles are motion-wrinkles due to facial expressions (like squinting) and not to weak collagen. In that case Matrixyl can't do anything about it.

(D) My simple water formulation does not preserve Matrixyl - it deteriorates from the moment of dissolving it or soon after that.

(E) My simple water formulation doesn't provide enough absorbtion of Matrixyl.


It would be helpfull if other people share their experience with Matrixyl.

Dr. Todorov, what do you think about (C) (D) and (E)?


Firstly - I like your thoughtful approach. Now, your Q-s

C) For genuine motion wrinkles, Matrixyl is unlikely to be of much benefit, perhaps it could do a bit in some cases, but chances are not high

C) If you dissolve and apply right away, sunstantial degradation is not likely, but if you store water solution, then it's possible.

E) In a simple water formulation, absorption may not be optimal since water quickly dries out, and diffusion into dry skin is not as good.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
C) If you dissolve and apply right away, sunstantial degradation is not likely, but if you store water solution, then it's possible.


What ingredients could possibly preserve it from degradation?

Quote:
E) In a simple water formulation, absorption may not be optimal since water quickly dries out, and diffusion into dry skin is not as good.


The PF solution has a lot of glycerin in it which when I dilute it with water gives something like 5% glycerin in the final mix. Won't glycerin keep it from drying out when applied?
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure you can protect it from hydrolisis (if it occurs). But to protect from oxidation, small amounts of E and ascorbate, or even green tea extract could work. (typical antioxidant preservativein fods and cosmetics is BHT but it is not readily availble and not very water soluble.

Also, if you store for significan time at room temperature you also need to protect against bacteria.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have green tea oil ....

What about the glycerin in the Matrixyl mix? Doesn't it keep part of the water from evaporating? If not, would Hyaluronic acid keep it moist?
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

orangehrzn wrote:
I have green tea oil ....

What about the glycerin in the Matrixyl mix? Doesn't it keep part of the water from evaporating? If not, would Hyaluronic acid keep it moist?


Oh, yes. You can increase glycerin to, say, 25-30%. Hyaluronic acid, or both, may work too.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a web site explaining hydrolisis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolysis

The most relevant part is 'Irreversibility of hydrolysis under physiological conditions'. As far as I could get it, if your active ingredient has very low concentration compared to water (Matrixyl was 5ppm in my solution) then it dissociates almost completely!

Could that mean that I didn't have any Matrixyl left in the water solution ???
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Could that mean that I didn't have any Matrixyl left in the water solution ???


Not necessarily. This only means that the reaction between water and Marixyl goes irreversibly towards hydrolysis. However, how quickly that happens depends on kinetics (reaction rate), which depends on temprature, chemical nature of Matrixyl, pH, etc, etc... If the rate is slow, you will use it up, before it has significantly degraded.

If I had hydrolysis kenetics data on Matrixyl, I could tell you exactly how fast it will degrade - but I don't think this info is easily accessible. If you find it, let me know...
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