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aeonj
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Hayflict Limit is only for fibroblasts not fibrocytes |
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Interesting insight.
as I am completely naive in biochemicals, I have 3 questions for u guys:
1) I heard that your skin get rennovated every 24 days/once a month. If true, this is way more then 50 Hayflick cycles... Some researcher even states that Hayflick does not apply to skin.
2) By using topical Vitamin C you send this antioxidant vitamin to your skin cells, but also you exfoliate every time you deploy it. By using it daily, is vitamin C making u hitting faster Hayflick limit (given point 1 is not true)?
3) Last on Hayflick: if you costantly weight train your muscles as I do since I was 16 (now 38), and what happens is that your broken fibers in the muscles regenaretes and get stronger etc etc... again, how is it possible that the process is limited to Hayflick limit? I should be without biceps by now :-)
I know I am missing something... please enlight me :-) |
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drtodorov
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Only stratum corneum and upper epidermis (keratinocytes) is renewed every 24 days, not the dermis and fibroblasts where Hayflick limit has been studied.
If you exfoliate to the degree of chronic damage to the dermis, then, yes that may be harmful in the long run.
Muscle cells to not divide or divide very little, Haflick limit does not apply to them. |
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aeonj
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Clear, Thanks!
So the very light, mostly subtle ascorbic acid exfoliation with DIY is it considered safe for daily usage I suppose, correct? |
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drtodorov
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| It should be safe as long as you don't develop irritation. If you do, use non-irritating C derivatives. |
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Optimistic
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 33
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Turning on telomerase and/or selectively inducing apopto |
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| johnny wrote: | | That is the basis for the business of companies, like Isolagen, who promise to reinject newly created cells, into the skin, to rejuvenate it, in the face of massive apoptosis of the worn out cells of middle aged and elderly adults. |
Isolagen has been shown to work effectively on scarring, but NOT on lines and wrinkles.
However, Isolagen UK went into liquidation in November 2006.
There has been a lot of bad press about the procedure and results have been very inconsistent. Most cosmetic surgeons I've spoken to in London say that the failure rate is due to incorrect application of the injections by poorly trained practitioners.
Due to the many reported failures and the relatively high cost of the treatment, Isolagen UK decided to fold for financial reasons and are now concentrating on getting through phase III trials in the US. |
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rina.eve
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| drtodorov wrote: | | If you exfoliate to the degree of chronic damage to the dermis, then, yes that may be harmful in the long run. |
Dr Todorov, what kind of exfoliation can cause a chronic damage to the dermis? Well, apart from deep acid and laser peelings, which is taken for granted?
1. I have been peeling my face on a 2-3 times per week basis for a few years with facial exfoliators (like Neutrogena) and scrubbing gloves - would that damage the dermis? I certainly have damaged the stratum corneum as my skin is dull, and dry, and worn-looking now, but that seems to be a more or less reversible damage, right?
2. I am having a tretinoin (0,05% Retin-A evening + AHA morning) treatment right now, trying to reverse some of the sun damage I've done to my skin through my thoughtless suntanning - my skin was irritated for a while, the first 3-4 weeks but now it is just fine, like it would be regular night/day creams. Would this treatment cause dermis damage?
3. Also, I do not understand the mechanism of Hayflick limit very well. Someone on your forum compared it to a mankind, where each person has a lifespan of about 80 years and by reproducing creates other persons with the same lifespan. Hence, the mankind is virtually "immortal". So, do I get it right that the actual mechanism of Hayflick limit (and the error of this analogy) is that actually each person with an 80-year lifespan reproduces persons with, say, a 60-year lifespan (due to telomer shortening), who, in turn, reproduce persons with a 40-year lifespan, etc. till the "mankind" gets extinct (senescent for cells)?
4. In this case, how often do dermis fibroblasts divide? And does that actually mean that the use of whatever skincare products that boast "increase in collagene and elastine reproduction" means I am wearing out my fibroblasts and therefore making their senescence - and my old-looking skin - approach? I failed to find info on this ((
I know this thread has been lifeless in a while, so I hope you see my post and reply it. |
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