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vit K and horse chestnut for broken capillaries ?

 
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: vit K and horse chestnut for broken capillaries ? Reply with quote

Are there any clinical studies showing that topical application or internal intake of vit. K or horse chestnut extract can close surface skin capillaries like spider veins?
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3616

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen any studies directly demonstrating the benefits of vitamin K for spider veins. It has been shown to help reduce bruising, but that is a different problem.

Horse chestnut seems to be effective as an oral supplement in the early stages of varicose veins (many studies). There are also a few studies of topical horse chestnut for varicose veins (see one below). I have not seen any studies of horse chestnut specifically for spider veins. In theory, it may help spider veins due to it's apparent ability to strengthen vien walls, but whether it really does, is hard to say. Strengthening and toning vein walls is one thing and shrinking the vein is not quite the same.

-------------------------------

Angiology. 2004 May-Jun;55 Suppl 1:S7-10. Related Articles, Links

Microcirculatory efficacy of topical treatment with aescin + essential phospholipids gel on transcutaneous PO2 in venous insufficiency.

Cesarone MR, Belcaro G, Ippolito E, Ricci A, Ruffini M, Dugall M.

Irvine2 Vascular Laboratory, Department of Biomedical Sciences, G. D'Annunzio University, Italy.

A gel including aescin, essential phospholipids (EPL), and heparin (EG) has been used for many years for local treatment of venous, microcirculatory alterations (varicose veins, chronic venous insufficiency). Bruises, swelling, thrombophlebitis, and contusions are effectively treated with this compound. The aim of this study was the evaluation of the efficacy of the effects of an AEPL (aescin+EPL) gel on the microcirculation in subjects with chronic venous insufficiency, venous hypertension (CVH), and venous microangiopathy. Transcutaneous PO(2) was measured at the perimalleolar region. After 2 weeks of treatment, all individual values (100%) were significantly increased (p < 0.05). In all patients, PO(2) increased, indicating a decrease in level of venous microangiopathy. Considering transcutaneous skin PO(2), treatment with AEPL in areas of venous microangiopathy is beneficial in the prevention of ulceration and improves skin healing.


Last edited by drtodorov on Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:39 pm; edited 3 times in total
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I once used vit K cream for spider veins and it did nothing so until there are clinical studies I am not wasting my time on such products.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a daily supplement specifically for my spider veins and it causes them to fade noticeably. As well, my face is a bit pink around the nose, and that goes away too. But if I stop taking the supplement, it comes back within a week (a week is what it took for me to notice a difference). The formua I use has 300 mg of butcher's broom, 250 mg horse chestnut, and 30 mg gotu kola. I'm not sure which (or if all) of the ingredients has the desired effect. I take two "servings" of the pills daily.

So, it defintely works for me. It isn't a cure, but it does change my blood circulation and makes the spider veins MUCH less noticeable, and I would be willing to bet it's helping my circulatory system and keeping me from getting more of the nasty little suckers.

A.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
Strengthening and toning vein walls is one thing and shrinking the vein is not quite the same.


Absolutely! This jives with what I've noticed: while taking horse chestnut (mixed with butcher's broom and gotu kola), the veins fade noticeably, but come back when I stop taking it for a week or so. But I imagine while they're supported, I'm less likely to get new ones.

A.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post where you get your supplement of butcher's broom, horse chestnut and gotu kola?
thank you.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3616

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
I use a daily supplement specifically for my spider veins and it causes them to fade noticeably. As well, my face is a bit pink around the nose, and that goes away too. But if I stop taking the supplement, it comes back within a week (a week is what it took for me to notice a difference). The formua I use has 300 mg of butcher's broom, 250 mg horse chestnut, and 30 mg gotu kola. I'm not sure which (or if all) of the ingredients has the desired effect. I take two "servings" of the pills daily.

So, it defintely works for me. It isn't a cure, but it does change my blood circulation and makes the spider veins MUCH less noticeable, and I would be willing to bet it's helping my circulatory system and keeping me from getting more of the nasty little suckers.

A.


How long have you been taking this supplement? Any side effects? Even herbs can have both short and long-tern side effects, such as liver damage. If you plan on taking it long term, consider getting ingredients separately and trying them individually to figure out whether you can perhaps use just use one of them for the same effect. Also, search the web, medline, etc. for toxicity info on these herbs. I vaguely recall than horse chestnut may have had some toxicity issues...
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah please post the supplement.
Also when you take it for a few weeks does the face redness go away completely or it is a reduction of the degree of redness. If its only reduction of degree, does it reach a plateau or its constantly improving ?
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alarson



Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to know where you get your product as well. From doing a search online, I found these two (I'm sure there are others too). But, if you can post your source, that would be great.

http://www.doctorshealthsupply.com/physiologics/inflammatory_response/rejuveinate.htm

http://www.ritecare.com/PhytoPharmica/vein.asp
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HealthySkinAge36



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am bumping up this very old post.

Did anyone ever try the supplements...(or find out the name) of the supplement mentioned above?
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utopia



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: horse chestnut Reply with quote

Be very careful with horse chestnut. Allergic reactions can be fairy high with it...plus long term usage toxicity not known. That is one I would be VERY careful with. I realize this is an old post but I did want to urge people to err on the side of caution with horse chestnut.
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foxglove



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys. I'm the "Guest" account who originally posted about the stuff and the good result I had. I forgot about the forums for a while, and I'm really sorry I didn't see the questions.

The brand I take is Enzymatic Therapy's Varicare. There are a bunch of other brands out there with approximately the same makeup, but they make me burp "herbal" burps, which I find annoying. Enzymatic Therapy manages to compress their formula in a way that's not irritating to my stomach.

Have I noticed any ill effects? Nope. No insomnia, weight gain, acne (I started getting acne three or four years ago, about four years after I'd started taking it, but my dermatologist says that's common for a woman my age, and birth control pills have the acne mostly stopped...I still get breakouts one week of the month). I've been taking the stuff on and off for about eight years. I can't afford it sometimes or I'd take it all the time. So I'll take it for six months, or three, or eight, and then take a couple week/month break until I can afford it again.

Dr. Todorov, you asked about liver problems. About ten years ago I was diagnosed with an autoimmune condition, so I take prescription medications that are really hard on my liver, so my rheumatologist does bloodwork every month. Among other things, they check my liver enzymes. So far my liver hums along like the good little machine it is. Even with the awful prescription crap, my liver has never given off danger signs. So I can definitely confirm that the Varicare is not causing a liver breakdown. That doesn't necessarily mean there's under-the-radar wear and tear, I guess, but that's all I can tell ya.

I've been taking Varicare off and on so long that I can absolutely say the effect (on a very white person with very red veins) is dramatic, and NOT PERMANENT. That's the sucky thing. If you stop taking it, the broken capillaries get really red again. But while you take it, they become at least 80% less visible. As vain (haha) as I am, when I have the money, it's totally worth it.

I'm not pimping the brand...other formulations of the same herb mix might do the same trick, but they're so burpy and annoying that I've never taken another type for more than a few days.

Again, sorry I vanished for so long. I got busy, forgot about the forum, and just decided to start trying to DIY again, googled around and found the forum. Hope anyone who needs the info finds it.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3616

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting your results. One case does not make a statistical sample, but your input is still very useful because you've been taking it long term and had blood tests done.
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