Dark circles

Rubber_Check · Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 4

I have dark circles underneath my eyes from either thin skin and/or a lack of fat, i am sure. my skin is for the most part translucent.

i have been using a copper peptides product called Pure Copper Eye Repair by Simple Solutions in an effort to build collagen so that light cannot pass as easily through the skin in an effort to minimize the dark circles. the results were noticeable but nothing really impressive.

i want to try some other products instead, and one of the products i want to try is magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, but i cannot find it on any of the d-i-y sites that i know of. the ones i know are:

skinactives.com
thepersonalformulator.com
gardenofwisdom.com
lotioncrafter.com
fromnaturewithlove.com

does anyone know any others?

also, i have read, albeit not here, that vitamin A causes the top layer of the skin to, for lack of a better phrase, slough off. that is the last thing i want to happen, because the more skin, the less worse my dark circles will look, imo. would a vitamin A product be helpful in what i am attempting to do?

thanks for any input.

p.s. a special thanks to dr. todorov for having this site. i have found it very informative and i think the cost for the infopack is very reasonable and plan to order one soon.

danny · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 16

yeh thanks for the site Dr! :)

About dark circles....

I've tried numerous cremes and even just bought plain vitamin k but the results are hardly noticeable and very temporary. For me it's genetics that the main cause and like you I've got faily transparent skin which also takes on a yellowish tinge (lookup 'Gilbert's Syndrome').

My circles are definately worse when I'm lacking sleep but even after months of healthy lifestyle & good sleep I still have them. For me they never completely go away.

As you probably know, ignorant people will often tell you that you look tired, or that you're on drugs. Well... people (in general) suck, not much you can do to change this attitude.

I'm at a loss what to do. They are my no 1. self-esteem issue at the moment and all I can think about is a life without them and how good it would be.

I'm seriously thinking of getting laser surgery done on them despite possible side-effects. I know of no other way to get rid of them.

drtodorov · Site Admin Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 3177

There are a few standardized herbal extracts shown in studies to reduce venous insufficiency, such as horse chestnut, butcher's broom and grape seed extract. Since they strengthen veins, it is conceivable that they might stgengthen capillaries too and thus improve dark circles of vascular origin.
But no one has studied them systematically for dark circles, whether orally or topically, so this is largely a speculation.

danny · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 16

I bought a formula off ebay called "BioEntropic Vitamin K Creme" That contains 5% vitamin K, 2% horse Chestnut and 1% CoQ10.

Overall I've found it provides minor temporary relief and not much else. I guess I'll need to save up for laser surgery.

drtodorov · Site Admin Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 3177

I don't think vitamin K is of any value for dark circles. It helps heal bruises but dark circles are not bruises because caplillaries are intact. CoQ10 is also of no value for dark circles. So that formulation is suboptinal for dark circles.

Conceivably, you could try a cream with standardized extract of both horse chestnut + butchers broom + grape seed extract, and perhaps simultaneously take a supplement with such a combination. If after a couple of month, there is no progress, then laser is probably your only remaining option.

Rubber_Check · Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 4

I have done the laser thing. it was with the candela v-beam. i have a few blue veins which i thought might be able to be treated with that, and to my surprise alot of redness under my eyes dispeared whihc i did not know was there (because of the dark circles i have.) unfortunately, my dark circles (purple kind) come from something under the skin. they cannot be treated with a laser. only the black kind can be. (people of mediterrean decent have these soemtimes.)

perhaps stimulating collagen production in the skin with ipl or some kind of laser (if such a thing can be done with lasers) would be a way to lessen the look of the circles.

i would look into isologen as a possible treatment. it is an injectable. i am not exactly sure how it works (i forget) but it has to do with fibroblast production. a small part of your skin is surgically removed from behind your ear and in a lab it is stimulated to make a compound which is injected. really interesting stuff, although it is only approved in the UK. fat injections is another option but for some reason i think that would be difficult to do without it looking poorly contured and unnatural.

i just ordered some EGF (epidermal growth factor) from skinactives.com and i am thinking maybe that will help me. :)

orangehrzn · Joined: 23 Feb 2005 Posts: 1005

If your dark cirlces are due to accumulation of pigment, you could try Haloxyl:

http://thepersonalformulator.com/wvss/product_info.php?cPath=45_53&products_id=1236

I haven't tried it since I don't have that problem. You have to mix it in your base at 2% level. You can buy the 10ml trial size. It will be enough to evaluate it for many months and see if it has any effect on your circles. They quote a study that was 2 months long.

I strongly suggest you apply it only under one of the eyes and use the other eye as a control. That way you can detect if it REALLY makes a difference and avoid imaginary effects. Another mode is to apply haloxyl under one eye and EGF under the other one and see which one does better.

To avoid make up 'cover up' effects due to the base, when u evaluate the effect you should stop any product application for a few days and use face wash to wash away any debris. Then compare the eyes ...

nancy · Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 13

I dont know if i can help here,
but i have been looking at a product
called plazan for a while now, i read on the site they have a very good eye cream .
they even had it mentioned on the customers recommendation page.
you could always give it a look :D
http://www.plazancosmetics.com

claire63 · Joined: 22 Dec 2005 Posts: 25

First thing you could do is check for allergies. If you have chronic allergies, then the drainage through your sinuses can cause dark circles. The skin beneath your eyes is so thin and the constant drainage will make that area look darker. I always look better when I use antihistamines but obviously can't do that all the time. I do have to take allergy meds each day but still the circles are not completely gone -neither are the allergies. :-)

For covering up I like Revlon's Colorstay concealer over a plum lip pencil. I know that sounds odd but on another board I read about this trick. You put the plum where the line between cheek and circle is then top with concealer. Strangely enough, it does seem to erase that "line of demarcation".

For topicals, my tried and true are Peter Thomas Roth Power K Eye Rescue, Eye Bright Treatment serum, and Teamine Eye Complex. The first two are better at brightening/depuffing, the last one at moisturizing but some slight brightening.

Good luck!

monie8 · Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 1

I have used many different products in all price ranges. I've found an excellent product to reduce dark circles: MD Skincare "Lift and Lighten"

http://www.mdskincare.com/products.cfm?SKU=MD031410&GroupID=webBrowsers

It produced amazing results on my eye area. I also had sunken-in eyes and I used Perricone: Alpha Lipoic Eye area therapy:

Hope this helps!

debdrecoh · Joined: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 92

Rubber_check skinactives.com do have MAP.

marsto911 · Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 122

Hi,

Dark circles are one of my many beauty problems. It sounds like everyone has already given good advice and there is no magic cure.

Regarding cover-up, it is not an easy task. I do not have a concealor that I like right now, so I am using a little bit of a foundation (exuvianve) which is thicker than normal. This works ok.

With applying cover-up, I always "pat" on the treatment and never rub.

Also, layering can be good. Put on a cover-up cream, then put foundation on top of the cover=up.

Good luck to you.

M

merton · Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 80

Here's the link to the Magnesium Abscorbyl Phosphate.

http://www.skinactives.com/products/map.htm

prep - h works best as it is a vasoconstrictor.

to build up collagen matrixyl 3000 was created for that purpose.

i'd be careful with egf around the eye. what ever it touches it penetates immediately because its so small at 5 nanograms per micron concentration. It hits receptor sites and the signals jump throughout. Its really meant to tell collegen 4 in a scar to disapate and for collagen 1 to replace it in a more orderly lattice structure. I put some on a large discolored scar I've had for many years that was a result of my leg hitting the hot exhaust pipe on my motorcycle. After 3 days its 50% gone. However I developed itching a few days in thats almost unbearable that starts moments after I put it on. And I use very little. I keep the benedryl and hydrocortisone close by. As to other scars of the raised white variety there's been no change.

The body creates its own after a burn. I can't imagine what it would communicate to an eyeball if it made contact. At its ultimate source you have to sift through all the rabbit, horse and mouse genetic material till you find the human recombinant treasures. The word "recombinant" always appears around things that turn out to be worthy of serious prior investigation on my part. Like when there was recombinant bovine growth hormone in my ice cream.

cjdavis · Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 191 Location: Atlanta

Lucy · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 25

I am treating my dark circles from the inside as well, by taking a herbal supplement "Vein Health" with Horse Chestnut, Butcher's broom, Bioflavinoids and Rutin made by Nature's Sunshine Products,Inc. to support and treat my capillaries and veins. I suppose to get a good result ( doctor said) after 3 months by taking this supplement and using Teamine eye complex. Let's see.