help..what can get rid of these lines?

[merton]

You won't want to put that product under your eyes because 1) its a serious neurotoxin that could damage sight, and 2) it would cause sag that will last a long time. It kills the neural tips like botox(tm) and it takes some time for them to regenerate. Extreme caution on the outer eye area perhaps.

Technically its an acetylcholine receptor inhibitor. Its not a pentapeptideamide like the name seems to suggest. Its not a string of 5 peptides in other words. A great deal of effort has gone into not identifying it and it took several days of going through patent records, numerous peptide/neurotoxin library's ect. to identify it and its animal source. The INCI is of no use. Its also packaged at the manufacturer so it (the cake) can't be accessed until reconstituted. Good thing.

Again your photo doesn't look bad. Then again I am disturbed by wrinkles nobody else can see unless they're up close and looking.

-merton

[claudek]

Wow, some strong points. I wonder why I read on the net that dermotologists recommmend this brand? I even wrote the company with concern and they wrote me back with a very nice and informative reply:

"Regarding the review you found on the net: It is true that copper peptides have traditionally clashed with Vitamin C, however there are many things that statement doesn’t say. First, there are many types of copper peptides, we use what is known as a generation two GHK copper peptide bound to an amino acid complex to stabilize it. These kinds of copper peptides are very stable in formulas, even in the presence of hydroxy acids and vitamin C which normal GHK-CU copper peptides are not. However, to play it safe we include the copper peptides in the Ultra Serum and Ultra Eye Serum (to be used during the day) and the Vitamin C in the Renew Serum and Renew Eye Serum (to be used during the night). They never overlap and are used at completely different points of the day.



Also, Copper is unstable around Ascorbic Acid, but we use a stabilized L-Ascorbic Acid form, because of the mechanism of stabilization it may not interact with copper at all (especially not the generation two copper bound to amino acid peptides) even if it was in the same formula. However, because they aren’t in the same formula and aren’t applied over each other it doesn’t matter because they aren’t given the opportunity to interact. There is Vitamin C Ester (Ascorbyl Palmitate) In the Sunguard Moisturizing Complex, however, this form has not been shown to interact with copper peptides, it isn’t even in the lower pH range that ascorbic acid operates in. Because the Sunguard Moisturizing Complex is a thicker lotion-cream is tends to stay on top of the skin more while the serums penetrate and dry faster, but even if the Vitamin C Ester was also in a serum it wouldn’t much matter because it is a larger molecule and studies are mixed on whether it can adequately penetrate the skin like polypeptides and copper peptides. In the Sunguard product it is used more for UV protection and to mitigate UV damage on the surface of the skin in conjunction with the Vitamin E, so you want it to stay on top of the skin where it can do this best. But it will not interact with the copper peptides we use in our products, we were very mindful to research that before formulating our products.



Regarding the Argeriline and DMAE: The person posting does being up a good point, however DMAE and Argeriline work in different ways. We are actually thinking of removing the Argeriline from the product not because of interaction with other ingredients but because really the literature on it isn’t that expansive. In the studies it does have it only showed a wrinkle reduction rate of about 17%, and up to 27% with longterm use. The other polypeptides have much better study results behind them; to me 17% or even 27% really isn’t enough, we prefer using ingredients that have more dramatic results. So we’re debating if it’s really worth it to use the Argeriline for that reason. As for that person claiming it’s not meant to be used under the eyes, there is no study to back up his or her claim to that. People seem to equate it with Botox and that’s just not the case. It has effects similar to Botox, but when I say similar I mean it has a relaxing effect but not nearly as dramatic. "

http://www.buzzle.com/boards.asp?board=235&message=123919

[MARISHKA]

[claudek]

I never tried that skin care line, but maybe good, as it is a good name.
Thanks

[guapagirl]

Dr Pickard (inventor of CPs) says that it is C which is neutralised by the CPs. As far as I know vit c (L-ascorbic acid form) has to be a low pH to be effective, so I can't see how they can work together given that CPs need a fairly pH neutral environment as well.

I used to use an agireline serum all over my face (I know, I now know better!) and I never experienced any eye sag or face sag at all. I only use it above my eyes now - just in case! :)

Claudek, the eye serum you are using contains CPs right? Thing about CPs (assuming they are in a reasonable concentration) is that they should be introduced slowly as the skin remodelling they cause can cause serious wrinkling. I used the CP serum for a year and switched to the supr serum a couple of months ago and got the most horrenous 'uglies' that I had to stop. I have re introduced the super serum, but in tiny amounts now and it's going ok now (touch wood!).

Merton, where do you get the eyeliss from?

[MARISHKA]

[claudek]

Hi Guapagirl , yes that Renew Serum has CP and Hydroxies
.I use the Renew at night and the Ultra Eye in the AM.
Look at the ingredients and specs. This line is apparently in many specialized dermotoligist offices and good spas..
I think I can give you all an honest answer in about 2- 3 months , to see any progress or bad reports. I hope no more uglies@@!!

http://xeridianskincare.com/browse_dept_items.asp/categ_id/2/parent_ids/0/Name/Eye_Care