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help..what can get rid of these lines?
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merton



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You won't want to put that product under your eyes because 1) its a serious neurotoxin that could damage sight, and 2) it would cause sag that will last a long time. It kills the neural tips like botox(tm) and it takes some time for them to regenerate. Extreme caution on the outer eye area perhaps.

Technically its an acetylcholine receptor inhibitor. Its not a pentapeptideamide like the name seems to suggest. Its not a string of 5 peptides in other words. A great deal of effort has gone into not identifying it and it took several days of going through patent records, numerous peptide/neurotoxin library's ect. to identify it and its animal source. The INCI is of no use. Its also packaged at the manufacturer so it (the cake) can't be accessed until reconstituted. Good thing.

Again your photo doesn't look bad. Then again I am disturbed by wrinkles nobody else can see unless they're up close and looking.

-merton
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claudek



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, some strong points. I wonder why I read on the net that dermotologists recommmend this brand? I even wrote the company with concern and they wrote me back with a very nice and informative reply:

"Regarding the review you found on the net: It is true that copper peptides have traditionally clashed with Vitamin C, however there are many things that statement doesnít say. First, there are many types of copper peptides, we use what is known as a generation two GHK copper peptide bound to an amino acid complex to stabilize it. These kinds of copper peptides are very stable in formulas, even in the presence of hydroxy acids and vitamin C which normal GHK-CU copper peptides are not. However, to play it safe we include the copper peptides in the Ultra Serum and Ultra Eye Serum (to be used during the day) and the Vitamin C in the Renew Serum and Renew Eye Serum (to be used during the night). They never overlap and are used at completely different points of the day.



Also, Copper is unstable around Ascorbic Acid, but we use a stabilized L-Ascorbic Acid form, because of the mechanism of stabilization it may not interact with copper at all (especially not the generation two copper bound to amino acid peptides) even if it was in the same formula. However, because they arenít in the same formula and arenít applied over each other it doesnít matter because they arenít given the opportunity to interact. There is Vitamin C Ester (Ascorbyl Palmitate) In the Sunguard Moisturizing Complex, however, this form has not been shown to interact with copper peptides, it isnít even in the lower pH range that ascorbic acid operates in. Because the Sunguard Moisturizing Complex is a thicker lotion-cream is tends to stay on top of the skin more while the serums penetrate and dry faster, but even if the Vitamin C Ester was also in a serum it wouldnít much matter because it is a larger molecule and studies are mixed on whether it can adequately penetrate the skin like polypeptides and copper peptides. In the Sunguard product it is used more for UV protection and to mitigate UV damage on the surface of the skin in conjunction with the Vitamin E, so you want it to stay on top of the skin where it can do this best. But it will not interact with the copper peptides we use in our products, we were very mindful to research that before formulating our products.



Regarding the Argeriline and DMAE: The person posting does being up a good point, however DMAE and Argeriline work in different ways. We are actually thinking of removing the Argeriline from the product not because of interaction with other ingredients but because really the literature on it isnít that expansive. In the studies it does have it only showed a wrinkle reduction rate of about 17%, and up to 27% with longterm use. The other polypeptides have much better study results behind them; to me 17% or even 27% really isnít enough, we prefer using ingredients that have more dramatic results. So weíre debating if itís really worth it to use the Argeriline for that reason. As for that person claiming itís not meant to be used under the eyes, there is no study to back up his or her claim to that. People seem to equate it with Botox and thatís just not the case. It has effects similar to Botox, but when I say similar I mean it has a relaxing effect but not nearly as dramatic. "

http://www.buzzle.com/boards.asp?board=235&message=123919
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MARISHKA



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: help..what can get rid of these lines? Reply with quote

claudek wrote:
Here is a pic of my crows feet wrinkles and also some hyper- pigmentation.
What would you recommend to clear these up? Any help..Do not like.
I did botox last year and it did the job, but wondering if it would make lines worse.


The most important thing is to wear sunscreen everyday. It always helps with the lines and wrinkles and also pigmentation. I wear Very Precious Fluid SPF 40 even under my eye area.

http://usa.loccitane.com/product/product.asp?product=27FT030I6
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claudek



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never tried that skin care line, but maybe good, as it is a good name.
Thanks
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guapagirl



Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Pickard (inventor of CPs) says that it is C which is neutralised by the CPs. As far as I know vit c (L-ascorbic acid form) has to be a low pH to be effective, so I can't see how they can work together given that CPs need a fairly pH neutral environment as well.

I used to use an agireline serum all over my face (I know, I now know better!) and I never experienced any eye sag or face sag at all. I only use it above my eyes now - just in case! :)

Claudek, the eye serum you are using contains CPs right? Thing about CPs (assuming they are in a reasonable concentration) is that they should be introduced slowly as the skin remodelling they cause can cause serious wrinkling. I used the CP serum for a year and switched to the supr serum a couple of months ago and got the most horrenous 'uglies' that I had to stop. I have re introduced the super serum, but in tiny amounts now and it's going ok now (touch wood!).

Merton, where do you get the eyeliss from?
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MARISHKA



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

claudek wrote:
I never tried that skin care line, but maybe good, as it is a good name.
Thanks


I just decided to make it easier for you so here it is a full description
You know they have a full line based on Immortelle essential oil. It works good for my skin. I hope I was helpful for you. Good luck!
Very Precious Fluid SPF 40

DESCRIPTION

An anti-aging skincare solution that provides maximum protection against sun damage - and mattifies and brightens the complexion.

ē Prevents wrinkles and firms skin - with a high concentration of Immortelle essential oil, concentrated into micro-capsules for continuous release all day long.
ē Protects against UVB rays (which cause sunburn) with an SPF 40 sun filter.
ē Protects against UVA rays (which cause premature aging of the skin) with the highest level of protection known as PA.
ē Defends against premature aging and the development of new pigmentation marks.
ē Evens the complexion and reduces the appearance of uneven
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claudek



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guapagirl , yes that Renew Serum has CP and Hydroxies
.I use the Renew at night and the Ultra Eye in the AM.
Look at the ingredients and specs. This line is apparently in many specialized dermotoligist offices and good spas..
I think I can give you all an honest answer in about 2- 3 months , to see any progress or bad reports. I hope no more uglies@@!!

http://xeridianskincare.com/browse_dept_items.asp/categ_id/2/parent_ids/0/Name/Eye_Care
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