Smart Skin Care Forums
Home  -   Forum Index  -   Search  -   Register  -   Profile  -   Log in  -   FAQ  -   Contact Us

is electro stimulation safe for the face?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Smart Skin Care Forum Index -> Skin Rejuvenation / Anti-Aging
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jamesherried



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: is electro stimulation safe for the face? Reply with quote

One person on this site recommends Suzanne Somers' electro stimulator to tone, tighten and firm sagging facial muscle(he/she has Suzanne Somers' website listed where the device can be purchased). Dr. Perricone also has such a device available, and in one of his books he says that if it's used with DMAE, the face-lifting effects of DMAE (combined with the electro stimulator)will be much faster and more dramatic than just DMAE alone. Whether electro stimulation is effective or not I don't know yet, but at this point I 'd like to know if it can harmful in any way. For example, even if it does tone and tighten facial muscles, is there a chance that it might damage collagen?
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James,

I did answer your question with a deffinite NO, but to expand on Perricone and DMAE... That's his opinon and there are no studies to back his claim up. Any substance that helps support the collagen, or fibril structure of the skin, or can firm and tone, could only help and enhance the results. Remember: Perricone sells his DMAE creams and has a vested interest in selling it with his device.

Wait let me check it out... Okaaay... I can't find Perricone's device. Where did you see it?
Back to top
View user's profile
jamesherried



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blueyes wrote:
James,

I did answer your question with a deffinite NO, but to expand on Perricone and DMAE... That's his opinon and there are no studies to back his claim up. Any substance that helps support the collagen, or fibril structure of the skin, or can firm and tone, could only help and enhance the results. Remember: Perricone sells his DMAE creams and has a vested interest in selling it with his device.

Wait let me check it out... Okaaay... I can't find Perricone's device. Where did you see it?


Actually I read about his device in one of his books, "The Perricone Prescription", where he talks about an electric glove that he sells that stimulates the facial muscles. But that book came out a while ago, and I haven't heard anything about his device since I read that book, which is still on the shelves of bookstores. I'm aware of the fact that Dr. Perricone is out to sell his own products (aren't they all?), and I'm aware of the importance of well-conducted, unbiased scientific studies (which are too rare when it comes to skin care). But then if there are no studies to back up his claim that electro stimulation benefits the muscles of the face in any way, then that would apply not only to his glove but to any electro stimulator. In cases like this, whether one chooses Suzanne Somers device or Dr. Perricone's, the only way to find out if they work is to try them, assuming that they do no harm to the skin.
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I referred to Perricone stating that DMAE will enhance the electro stimulation results. THAT is what has no studies. Elctro stimulation has been used in Europe for decades and appropriate agencies approved it there, along with the FDA here.

Electro stimulation DOES have studies backing it up.


Last edited by blueyes on Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FDA approved electro stimulation of muscles for what exactly?
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electro stimulation of facial muscles.

Micro-electrical pulses contract and relax facial muscles, toning and firming them in the process.

Don't pretend that you guys never heard of this before... :)

blueyes
Back to top
View user's profile
orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you reference me to the FDA document where they approve electrical stimulation of muscles for toning?

I know that electrical stimulation of abs doesnt do a squat so I wonder why it would be different for facial muscles.
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the GENERAL info for electro muscle stimulation, direct from the FDA's website: http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/ems.html

And here is the FDA application for the Facemaster (approved):
http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/pdf4/K040871.pdf#search=%22fda%20facial%20toning%20electrical%20stimulators%22
Back to top
View user's profile
orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like FDA is conserned more with the safety of the device than with its effectiveness in preventing or reversing facial sagging. The device is said to be 'equivalent to similar devices' whatever that means and 'indicated for cosmetic use'. I think in translation that means the device does not make claims of altering physical appearance, otherwise it has to pass several years of clinical trials.

The thing that concerns me most is the stimulation of muscles around eye which practically means the device makes your eye squint. Everybody knows that leads to crows feet, the very purpose of Botox is to prevent squinting.

I think the FlexEffect exercises are much better than electrical stimulator first cause they really have the potential to build the facial muscles as far as that is possible (simply put the contraction is more intense than electrically stimulated) and second because the contractions used by FlexEffect are mostly passive meaning you hold the muscle and try to contract, there isn't actuall squinting around the eyes.
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orangehrzn,

You are needlessly concerned. Yes, some of these devices use currents that make you look like you're spasming (it still doesn't hurt, though) and that is why you have to find ones that utilize the European type of contraction, which is basically very mild, rapid contractions, that feel and look like twitches. No, squinting happens with these kinds of machines, and that is why I chose the Facemaster. :)
Back to top
View user's profile
orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clarifying about the contractions induced by Facemaster, I was wondering about it. I do bodybuilding and from my experience muscles tone and grow only from heavy contractions. Thats why doing work around the house no matter how fast won't tone you or make you muscular LOL In that aspect, I really don't believe Facemaster with its 'twitches' will have any effect on muscle tone or consequently on facial sagging but that's just my opinion based on extrapolations.
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orangehrzn,

You DO need to do your homework, but don't knock something until you try it. Specially, when it's proven to work. Extrapolation can get you in trouble, every time... Believe ME.

Electro stimulation DOES NOT work for gaining muscle mass or strength, but that's NOT what you're doing with facial muscles. The muscles in your face are attached to your skin, that's why you can make facial expressions. In your body it is not attached to the skin, and this is a big difference.

Besides, your muscles in your face respond differently to excercise, or to other stimuli. In the case of transdermal electro stimulation it deffinitely works, otherwise it would not have been used for decades in Europe. You asked for regulatory proof and I gave you that, too. I used this machine for a long time and seen dramatic results, immediately. You can prove to yourself it works by using it only on one side of your face and I can guarantee that you will be amazed at what you see in the mirror.

It's good to be skeptical, but (just like everything else) too much of anything can be bad for you... ;)

blueyes
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh... and one more thing.

Muscles don't grow from heavy contraction. Excercise with weights creates micro tears in the target muscles and this in turn stimulates the body into rebuilding the muscles bigger and stronger. Your muscles actually grow between excercise, not WHILE you're excercising. That is why you have to give yourself 24 to 48 hours between workouts, so your body can recover and rebuild those muscles. If you train too soon, you shortcircuit this process and actually will lose muscle, because your body is not finished rebuilding, and you're already tearing it down again.

This is what you wanted to say... right? :)

blueyes
Back to top
View user's profile
jamesherried



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blueyes wrote:
Oh... and one more thing.

Muscles don't grow from heavy contraction. Excercise with weights creates micro tears in the target muscles and this in turn stimulates the body into rebuilding the muscles bigger and stronger. Your muscles actually grow between excercise, not WHILE you're excercising. That is why you have to give yourself 24 to 48 hours between workouts, so your body can recover and rebuild those muscles. If you train too soon, you shortcircuit this process and actually will lose muscle, because your body is not finished rebuilding, and you're already tearing it down again.

This is what you wanted to say... right? :)

blueyes


Most of the above is correct, except that it's incorrect to say that muscles don't grow from heavy contraction. You actually need contraction to build muscle, because that's what triggers the whole process described above. In fact, if you're a fully grown adult, muscular contraction is the about the only way you can build muscle (aside from taking creatine which can increase the water content of your muscles)...unless electro stimulation works also, which is something I dont' know yet. The only way to find out is to try it, but I still don't know if it's totally safe.
Back to top
View user's profile
blueyes



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well actually it IS correct, and I can maybe clarify: Muscles grow not form the concentric phase of the contraction, but rather the eccentric (or negative) part of the contraction, which is what your muscles do when you lower the weights, not when you raise them. Studies have shown that the eccentric phase of the muscle contraction is what creates the micro tears, and makes the muscles grow. ;)

As for you still not knowing if it's safe (after I proved to you that the FDA approved it)... well... I can't help you there.

blueyes
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Smart Skin Care Forum Index -> Skin Rejuvenation / Anti-Aging All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group