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can too much water retention "stretch out" skin?

 
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youngrace



Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: can too much water retention "stretch out" skin? Reply with quote

hi there! i'm a little new, so i'm not certain what questions are "typically" asked on the board. however, no guts, no glory, so here goes:

can too much water retention (in the dermis, epidermis, etc.) actually end up "stretching out" the cells in skin, resulting in more sagging later? this seems at least a somewhat likely possibility, particularly in young skin. in other words, will water-retaining ingredients like hyaluronic acid actually do more damage to young skin in the long run? thanks in advance for thinking this over!

sincerely,
grace
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drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simply moisturizing skin with HA shouldn't do that, but soft tissue water accumulation that manifests as facial puffiness, for example, could over the long run stretch skin and contribute to sag and wrinkles. HA you apply in a cream does not get into dermis. At best it will hold some moisture on top of the skin - no stretching there.
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Jouke



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
Simply moisturizing skin with HA shouldn't do that, but soft tissue water accumulation that manifests as facial puffiness, for example, could over the long run stretch skin and contribute to sag and wrinkles. HA you apply in a cream does not get into dermis. At best it will hold some moisture on top of the skin - no stretching there.


Oh dear!!
Same question the other way around: I drink about three to four liters of water and green tea a day. Since I started doing so a few years ago my skin has really improved.
Could it be this is only temporarily because my skin has been strechted and that sag is on its way???!!
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Puffiness is generally not a result of high water intake per se (unless you drink most of your of your fluids in the evening.)
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youngrace



Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you so much, dr. t! you're always such a wonderful source of advice. :)
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Dfontaine



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the Doc. Using humectants like HA, Glycols, Glycerin and Urea bring moisture to the top of the skin. We could go into a whole thing about oxidation due to the oxygen in water and how it affects the elastin structure, but later maybe ;) but it's not going to stretch it out.

However there are different schools of thought as to whether or not that is good or bad for the skin, but it won't stretch your skin structure. Water on the skin can bloat the dead skin cells on the top surface and can make the barrier appear more moisturized and temporarily reduce the appearance of lines. Again, some are shifting to the argument that applying water to the skin not only changes the PH of the skin by making it more alkaline (water has a PH of 7 while natural skin is around 5) but also interrupts the body's natural exfoliation process which in turn makes your skin drier looking if humectants are used for a long time. If that makes sense.

In my opinion, though I donít believe in humectants and donít use them in my products, they have no affect on skin stretching except that possibly they could make the skin heavier thus increasing the gravitational pull Ė if you even want to go there ;)

get your moisture from within IMO.
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youngrace



Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks dfontaine! that /does/ make sense. i initially wondered because kinerase really seemed to "plump" up my skin, and i was a little wary about long-term effects. it's good to know that any temporary "plumping" only affects the epidermis. :) however, does that mean the kinetin (or any active in any cream, for that matter) doesn't penetrate the dermis layer either? isn't this where we theoretically would /want/ the actives to reach? apologies if i sound befuddled (probably because i am).

thanks in advance :)
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Dfontaine



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at the ingredients of the Kinerase cream. The base of the cream doesn't look like it was made to carry things into the skin which is why I was sort of suprised to see the N6-furfuryladenine (kinetin) in it. Possibly the kinetin applied to the outside of the skin helps the plump also, though I'd be a little weary of kinetin in general or any hormones used topically. I'd have to see some very good study done on the epidermal growth factor receptors in cancer cells and how they react with specific hormones before I'd put them on my skin. Very possible it can accelerate the cancer cell reproduction if it gets to the source.

Based on my limited experience in making my own products from the ground up (no pre formulated bases) it doesn't look like Kinerase is a carrier cream. It looks like a topical cosmetic product which is meant to stay on top of the skin.

as far as getting actives into the skin, and which layer of the skin it goes to, how much gets into the blood stream based on what carries it in is a science I'm learning more about every day.
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