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Pycnogenol vs. grape seed extract...

 
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jamesherried



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 784

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:36 pm    Post subject: Pycnogenol vs. grape seed extract... Reply with quote

Is there any advantage to using Pycnogenol in addition to just grape seed extract alone, appled topically to the skin? My understanding is that Pycnogenol(the flavanoids in it) would enhance the ability of Vitamin C to repair and rebuild collagen, but my understanding is that grape seed extract might do the same.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since each extract is a mix of flavonoids, there are some differences. But from the data I've seemed the similarities in chemistry and physiological effects are such that in most cases it is probably not worth the trouble to use both.
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jands



Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 105
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing some reading about this and have come up with the following info from a few different manufacturers.

Quote:
pycnogenol is a patented name for a pine bark extract that is derived from pinus pinaster (=French maritime pine). It is very expensive.


Quote:
There is also a pine bark extract with no patented name that is derived from pinus silvestri.


Quote:
Pine bark extract contains oligomeric proanthocyanidins as well as several other bioflavonoids: catechin, epicatechin, phenolic fruit acids (such as ferulic acid and caffeic acid), and taxifolin. Procyanidins are oligometric catechins found at high concentrations in red wine, grapes, cocoa, cranberries, apples.

Quote:

Pinus silvestri Pine Bark extract contains the same reactive ingredients as Pycnogenol, though their resources are different. According to our experiments, Pinus Silvestri Pine Bark has a same HPLC profile as Pycnogenol and its Proanthocyanidins content (Tested with Beta-Smith method) is higher than Pycnogenol. Meanwhile, the ORAC test also showed that Pinus Silvestri extract has more powerful antioxidant activity.


I have requested a copy of these test results.

If Pine bark extract is indeed as effective as grape seed extract then there would be one big advantage to using it: Pine Bark extract is soluble in water, this should make it a bit more pleasant to use in DIY, as grape seed extract is soluble in Ethanol and partially soluble in cold water (MSDS).
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jamesherried



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 784

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that info. I also just noticed on www.bulkactives.com that pine bark extract is a water soluble alternative to grape seed extract. And I also wondered if their pine bark extract is identical or similar to Pycnogenol.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many vehicles are oil/water emulsions and will mix with grape seed extract just as well as with pine bark extract.
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jamesherried



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 784

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
Many vehicles are oil/water emulsions and will mix with grape seed extract just as well as with pine bark extract.


Which vehicles are oil/water emulsions? Can they be used to make a Vitamin C-Vitamin E serum with grape seed extract? According to a book I have called "Make Your Own Effective Cosmetic Treatments" by Carol Demas (recommended by someone on this forum), grape seed extract is soluble in propylene glycol, and that's the only solvent she lists for grape seed extract. But www.bulkactives.com says that grape seed extract is also soluble in ethanol, and only partly soluble in water. So I don't know if its better to use ethanol or propylene glycol to dissolve grape seed extract, or just use pine park extract or pycnogenol in water.
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nyonyakay



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grape seed extract is also completely soluble in pure glycerin, and the compounded mixture is in turn, completely soluble in water, or an emulsion.
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jamesherried



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 784

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nyonyakay wrote:
Grape seed extract is also completely soluble in pure glycerin, and the compounded mixture is in turn, completely soluble in water, or an emulsion.


That's good to know. I might just make a gel or serum using Pygnogenol, grape seed extract and green tea combined and apply it over a Vitamin C serum (after about 15 minutes). The only thing there there is that one author claims that whenever you make any skin products using green tea extract, you should always use BHT as a preservative, unless you keep the product for only 3-4 days. She says it also a good idea to use BHT when using grape seed extract, if the product is to be kept for more than 3-4 days.
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