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jessica9



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Every Two Hours? Reply with quote

I have read that you need to apply sunscreen every two hours, and I have also read that you only need to apply sunscreen if you have been exposed to sunlight for two hours, because the sun is what degrades its effectiveness. What is right?
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MrlGrl46



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really depends on the sunscreen, some brands hold up better than others. Suncreen basically sits near the surface of your skin and provides a protective barrier to protect your healthy skin cells from UV exposure. Re-apply as needed. I took the Merle Norman SPF 25 sunblock to the the southern Caribbean for my wedding, and really only re-applied once, maybe twice if we were swimming after my first application throughout the day.

Ideally, sunscreens should be water-resistant, so they cannot be easily removed by sweating or swimming, and should have an SPF of 15 or higher that provides broad-spectrum coverage against all UV wavelengths. Sunscreens should be applied to dry skin 15-30 minutes BEFORE going outdoors. Sunscreens should be used every day!!!

Ingredients which provide broad-spectrum protection include benzophenones (oxybenzone), cinnamates (octylmethyl cinnamate and cinoxate), sulisobenzone, salicylates, titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, avobenzone (Parsol 1789) and ecamsule (Mexoryl SX).

The sunís reflective powers are great Ė 17 percent on sand and 80 percent on snow. Donít reserve the use of these products only for sunny summer days. Even on a cloudy day, 80 percent of the sunís ultraviolet rays pass through the clouds.

MrlGrl46@hotmail.com
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jessica9



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for your reply, but i am already aware of these things. my question was in reference to chemical sunscreens degrading in sunlight, and whether if I am indoors with minimal to no sunlight (sunlight through a window or few or a room without windows), I need to reapply every two hours. If I am not sweating, am wearing a sweat and water resistant formula anyway, can i apply a sunscreen at 9 in the morning, drive 15 minutes (with tinted glass in my car windows), after being indoors in a room with one window for an 90 minutes, driving another 15 minutes, walking five, and basically being inside all day until after four, how many times should I apply throughout the day and if so when should I reapply. Or should I reappy at all, since my sunscreen is Anthelios XL and Meroxyl and Helioplex are touted as protecting up to 5 hours. I am not in the sun this long at all each day. My sunscreen stays very well on the skin - it is difficult to wash off after only one application in a whole day.

So my more general question is in regards to the degredation of sunscreen in direct and/or indirect sunlight, and my more specific question involves the particulars of my daily routine, which I would appreciate some feedback on with consideration of the first question. Hope that clarifies things! i would appreciate some advice.
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MrlGrl46



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chemicals in SPFs actually absorb the rays so they dont penetrate into the skin. Yes, chemical molicules will only absorb so much UV and will break down over a period of time.

Titanium dioxide and Zinc oxide is an opaque physical barrier that bounces light off the surface and reflects it away from your skin so you dont absorb the rays. These dont break down as easily as the chemicals so a moisturizer or foundation which contains these will protect you all day as you go about a daily routine without reapplication.

If you are going to be exposed for more than 15-20 mins to direct sunlight, use a full spectrum SPF that contais both physical and chemical blocks and re-apply often for good protection.
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Jouke



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to see and listen to Paula Begoun (CosmeticsCop), she was in the Netherlands two weeks ago.
She's a fantastic woman by the way!

She is very fanatic about sun protection and never sees any daylight without SPF. In relation to this she has quite some influence on me so I asked her whether the sunscreen I put on in the morning before I go to my office will stil be sufficient when I go home after work.
You must know I drive a convertible and I love to drive home open (roof down). I used to feel very protected with my SPF15 I applied in the morning, but to my dissapointment Paula said that I really had to reapply, even though I always wear a cap when driving in the sun.

Well, that will give a mess since I should have to apply the cream on top of my eyeschadow, mascara and blusher. I don'n't see me cleaning my face etcetera etcetera at the office ;-)

So now I am looking for an elegant (or better: invisible) powder with SPF (at least) 15, that I can apply before going into the sun.
Haven't found it yet, but I'm confident I will at last ;-)
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blackandtan



Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now I am looking for an elegant (or better: invisible) powder with SPF (at least) 15, that I can apply before going into the sun.
Haven't found it yet, but I'm confident I will at last ;-)[/quote]


Bareminerals and Philosophy make SPF 15 powder, it is pressed powder, and i think it is for cosmetics....
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jessica9



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually came across this the other day...
at skinstore.com you can find this new powder:

Peter Thomas Roth Instant Mineral SPF 30.

It comes with a little brush on when end (from what i could tell from browsing over it) that you tap on your skin. It s a transluscent powder, and offers higher protection than b.e. If I wore a physical blocker, I would definately be into trying it out myself. Only 30 dollars.

As far as what mlgrl said, I don't know - I think everything I have read regarding sun-protection - be it a physical blocker or a sunscreen - emphasizes the need to reapply. Please do not rely on makeup with an spf for protection!! It is one huge error people make. A sunscreen needs to be applied liberally in order to obtain the stated amount of protection. If you do that with a foundation, you will look like you are wearing stage makeup. Dermotologists who are knowledgable in regards to sun protection agree that a powder with spf or a foundation with spf is not actually protecting you. You are not getting the protection you think you are. And for various reasons - just as your makeup doesn't stay in place throughout the day, your sunscreen doesn't either and - you need to reapply if you are using a physical blocker. You also are not getting full protection from a moisturizer with spf - be it chemical or physical. If you are using one of the new physical blockers with microsized td and zinc ozide, such as zcote, this new technology minimizes the effectiveness of physical blockers. If you do not have a whitish cast after applying a traditional physical blocker, you are not applying correctly and are not getting adequate protection. There are tinted versions if you want to stick with physical blockers, but PLEASE reapply and do not rely on makeup for protection. You may not be getting a tan because you may not be in the sun much, but you are getting sundamage.

I use a the chemical sunscreen I use because it offers protection superior UVA protection. It also has chemically coated titanium dioxide, so that it does not interfere with avobenzone. Or rather, perhaps the avobenzone is since I use Meroxyl SX and XL. Chemical sunscreens begin to degrade after two hours, so I don't see why spending 20 minutes in direct sunlight would warrant reapplication alone. I am indoors all day, and I reapply before my 10 minute commute home, even though I haven't been in direct sunlight for 2 hours.

No sunscreen is perfect. Zcote and tinosorb are not perfect and neither are chemical sunscreens. Physical blockers are not ideal for aesthetic reasons, leading people to underapply. We can never be fully protected at all times. So knowing how to correctly apply and when to reapply are more important than physical vs. chemical.
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Mike



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to check out Color Science Sunforgettable sunblock. It is a powder which is nearly invisible, maintains an SPF of 30 even after 80 minutes of swimming, and it lasts for 6 hours without reapplication (those are the claims of the manufacturer).
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Jouke



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike, thank you for your advice! I already ordered the Sunforgettable (haven't received it yet), it sounds good!
I hope it won't make my face look white. They also have a slightly tinted version, but one has "a hint of a sparkle" and since my skin is a bit oily already that doesn't seem the right one.

I still have this question, hope there will be anyone who can answer me (dr. Todorov?):
I always use a non-greasy moisturizer with SPF15 (avobenzene). So this is a chemical sunscreen. The Colorescience Sunforgettable has zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, these are physical sunscreens. I intend to use it over my moisturizer and make-up for extra protection in the summer and for reapplying in the afternoon.
However, recently I read a posting that you shouldn't use physical and chemican sunscreen together (unfortunately I can't find the posting anymore).
Is this also true for a powder with physical sunscreen over a moisturizer with chemical sunscreen?

Thanks and regards, Jouke
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
You might want to check out Color Science Sunforgettable sunblock. It is a powder which is nearly invisible, maintains an SPF of 30 even after 80 minutes of swimming, and it lasts for 6 hours without reapplication (those are the claims of the manufacturer).


I don't buy those claims at all. A simple powder cannot have that adhession to skin to stay put during '80 minutes of swimming'.
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Jouke



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't buy those claims at all. A simple powder cannot have that adhession to skin to stay put during '80 minutes of swimming'.[/quote]

Oh, but I don't believe those "waterproof" claims neither!
But it does contain zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, so it must give sůme protection!
As I said, I see it as an additional protection, after having applied a cream with SPF and for reapplying over my make-up in the afternoon.
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jessica9



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with you orangehrzn. although jouke mentioned his own skepticism of the claims, I do think these powders seem realistic for the reason you mentioned. Orangehryzn, perhaps you wouldn't mind answering my original question of this post. You seem from other posts to really know your stuff and to be pretty cautious when it comes to sun protection like I am. If my direct sun exposure does not exceed more than two hours, and my time indoors with windows is nominal, what do you recommend as far as reapplication. I use a Meroxyl SX and XL sunscreen. I use it for cosmetic reasons. It does contain other sunscreens as well, as well as physical blockers. It is anthelios. i actually don't use any makeup really. I know we are all trying to find some extra protection for the reason. i just think for relying on makeup to do the trick is unrealistic and i want real protection, thus if you could answer my original question as best you can, I would appreciate it. I consider makeup and powders with spf compromises for who want sun protection but don't want to look like the have a trace of any on. i would love to be wrong in regard to this, but many dermatologists agree that you aren't getting real protection with powders and foundations. if i needed to wear makeup, i probably would be forced to compromise too. anyways...back to the original question. if you could give me your perspective in regards, I would appreciate it.
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jessica9



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry jouke..."her"...you are a woman, sorry!
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Physical sunscreens do not 'wear out' like chemical ones so unless you are sweating profusely, or you swim on the beach, reapplying a physical sunscreen every two hours is simply put ridiculous.

Chemical sunscreens tend to deactivate with time bit if the sunscren is labeled SPF 30 that means you won't get a tan for 20mins X 30 = 10 hours ! Again you have to reapply only if the sunscreen is rubbed off, you sweat profusely and you wash it off or you swim on the beach.

Anthelios has reputation of good chemical sunscreen just make sure it has enough UVA protection. The UVA's cause skin ageing.

I personally do NOT believe a powder can have the protection nor the staying power of a cream untill I see serious studies proving me wrong. A good test would be to test the powder on the beach, if you get a tan obviously its not working.
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jessica9



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Washington DC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i didn't mean to imply that a physical blocker needs to be applied every two hours, but it is often recommended on packaging because people often wear them while sweating and while swimming at the beach. some people sweat more than others, and i think if you do, you need to consider that your protection hasn't stayed put. the problem people run into with physical blockers is that I would say the majority of those who use them do not apply enough and are not getting adequate protection. that is why i said that relying on titanium dioxide and/or zinc oxide in a foundation or powder is just sort of fooling yourself. moisturizers with physical blockers cannot protect very well either.

anthelios has a reputation of being the best sunscreen for uva protection. This is partly due to its formulation, but mostly due to meroxyl, which is superior at blocking uva rays compared to other chemicals. it is also possible that meroxyl may protect for longer than 2 hours. It has an IPD of 90 and PPD of 28. It is also sweat-resistant, and I would say, as close to water resistant as you could come: it takes a really good cleansing job to get it off my face! I have been very pleased with it. mine is 50+ - I'm a bit sunscreen obsesed. but what is more important to me is the formulation. for everyday, i like it. if i were going to the beach, i'd choose a physical blocker.

i have used b.e. makeup at nighttime before. i'm not a foundation person, but the craze made me curious. and i have to admit, i am a person that sweats a lot on my face (or perhaps am just oily?). the stuff did not move from my face. i actually noticed i sweated less while I wore it. Did not expect that, and am not sure what that means really as far as protection is concerned. But I agree that if you are going to take sun protection seriously, you need something more than a powder or foundation definately. but a lot of people make compromises like i mentioned before. and that is up to the individual. but a lot of companies trick people into thinking they are protecting themselves with these products when in reality, they aren't. thanks for your words orangehrzn.
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