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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Sunny Southwest

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: GliSodin Reply with quote

Lef.org is touting a new product that increases SOD levels in the body. Of course, this is one of the Holy Grails of nutrition and the initial results look promising: at least one study shows GliSodin actually reverses arteriosclerois (as does pomegranate juice of course) when the patients engage in a Meditteranean Diet. (No, the control subjects on the Diet did not reverse artheriosclerosis.)

My question are these:
--Wouldn't an increase in SOD levels help the skin as well?
--I say that because isn't SOD ubiquitous through all tissues?
--Have their been any studies or even inferential results on skin having to do with SOD levels.

SOD apparently protects and activates glutathione levels as well (if that matters).
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's that study that reversed atherosclerosis?
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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Sunny Southwest

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
Where's that study that reversed atherosclerosis?


I don't think that it's on the web site yet as it came out in Life Extension mag on p 33. The study is apparently

Cloarec M, Caillard P. Provost JC, et al. GliSODin, a vegetal sod with gliadin, as preventative agent vs atherosclerosis, as confirmed with carotid ultrasound -B imaging. Alerg Immunol. (Paris), 2007 Feb;39(2):45-50

It's tough for me to go to the univ. library, so if you get a chance to look this up, I'd love to hear your analysis...
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds interesting. Unfortunately, this is a rather obscure journal. It is unlikely to be found in many medical libraries (I couldn't find it in the catalog anyway). And without exact data it is hard to evaluate the results.
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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Sunny Southwest

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
It sounds interesting. Unfortunately, this is a rather obscure journal. It is unlikely to be found in many medical libraries (I couldn't find it in the catalog anyway). And without exact data it is hard to evaluate the results.


Thx for the info! And I realize it was probably funded directly or indirectly by Life Extension as well.

But, in spite of all that, I think LEF is committed toward supporting what they do based on research as their membership expects quality products and not quackery. Their reputation is important for them and in general them seem to base their sales on research not theory or anecdote.

So what I'm getting at is that I think it will bear out over time even though none of us has a crystal ball. And that leads to a thesis that I have: in general if an antioxidant is good for the heart, it's good for the skin and it's good for immunity. Similary, if something is good for the skin, it's good for the heart and immunity and so on. Now that's not always true, but in terms of anitoxidants, such as CoQ10, Vit C, Vit E, Pycnogenol, etc., it seems like they help through a wide variety of tissues and systems.

So that leads to my next question: theoretically would an oral SOD help the skin? And, if that bears out, could it possibly be used topically?
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if SOD makes it into bloodstream, it may not make it from bloodstream into the dermis in the amounts sufficient to make much difference. It has to be tested. Topical benefits are not entirely out of the question but penetration problem may be hard to resolve for the protein such as SOD.
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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
Even if SOD makes it into bloodstream, it may not make it from bloodstream into the dermis in the amounts sufficient to make much difference. It has to be tested. Topical benefits are not entirely out of the question but penetration problem may be hard to resolve for the protein such as SOD.


Update: I noticed that Glisodin is being sold at much reduced prices (compared to LEF). As it turns out, Glisodin is (of course) patented and the parent company (glisodin.com) has a web site that you can google on. The research link is especially as it is (supposedly) a non-affliliated international community discussing/displaying glisodin research topics (glisodin.org) .

It's very interesting because Glisodin is gliadin bonded to SOD but the physiological response is actually much greater than just the pure sum of the SOD in the tablet. They think that the combination somehow triggers a response and caused the body to produce all the extra SOD.

Also, the rep said that the price differential between LEF and other companies usually has to do with the other ingredients packaged with it...
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why have you concluded that physiological response is greater that as if it were an SOD injection? If it is, it could be due to immune reaction to gliadin, which is not necessarily a good thing.
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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
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Location: Sunny Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
Why have you concluded that physiological response is greater that as if it were an SOD injection? If it is, it could be due to immune reaction to gliadin, which is not necessarily a good thing.


Interesting. Well, here's what the rep described and it's echoed in their materials. Let's say that - and I'm totally making up numbers here - that you take 500 mg of SOD and let's all 500 mg were delivered and absorbed into the bloodstream. You would expect 500 mg in the blood stream, right? Well, they have detected 5g in the bloodstream, i.e. many times what could be delivered by the product itself. So the conclusion they have drawn is that the body must have produced the remaining 4.5 g. (I realize these are huge numbers - sorry.)

If you could please tell me more or give me some examples about the immune response, I would appreciate it. But isn't a negative immune response one of the hallmark predictors of cardiovascular disease. If so, how could they have decreased IMT? I guess what I'm asking is "If you can actually decrease arterial thickness and buildbup, who cares about immune scores?"

And, yes, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Btw, I'll ask the rep about what the studies said just for general interest...
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Immune response induces inflammation, which induces production of more free radicals, which, in turn, induces increase of SOD synthesis.

I am not saying that's necessarily what is happening...
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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Sunny Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
Immune response induces inflammation, which induces production of more free radicals, which, in turn, induces increase of SOD synthesis.

I am not saying that's necessarily what is happening...


I asked the rep the following:

"You wrote that it “promotes vascular health” below. One thing I was concerned about is that the large increase in SOD that is apparently produced by the body in response to the GliSodin – could it be an immune response? Have any of the studies looked at immune response and/or inflammation response (cRP, fibrinogen, etc.)?"

He then responded with the rather generic "Yes, GliSODin has been studied for immune support and plays a vital role in support the immune response. This is why we believe it is extremely interesting therapeutically!"

Is there anything I can specifically ask him to find out if he really knows if there is an immune/inflammation response going on? Should I ask him if crp, for example, increases during the studies?
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing to measure would be anti-gliadin antibodies. If the they rise into the range typical for celiac disease patients, that would be alarming. Measuring levels of some interleukins could be helpful too.
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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Sunny Southwest

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
One thing to measure would be anti-gliadin antibodies. If the they rise into the range typical for celiac disease patients, that would be alarming. Measuring levels of some interleukins could be helpful too.


Of course, the rep never wrote me back when I asked about the above. Maybe he is on vacation or maybe he was sick of me.

In the meantime, I went to glisodin . org - the supposedly independent research organization - and found on the home page that it is actually considered by these researchers as a immune modulator. The site cites several studies to prove this:

Immune Modulation Back

9/ M. Marikovsky, V. Ziv, N. Nevo. C. Harris-Cerruti, O. Mahler. “Cu/Zn superoxide dismutase plays important role in immune response,” J. Immunology.(2003) Mar 15;170(6):2993-3001

15/ H. Chenal, A. Davit-Spraul, J. Brevet, A. Legrand, J. Demouzon, C. Cosson. B. Dugas, L. Montagnier, M. Conti. “Restored antioxidant circulating capacities in AIDS west african patients receiving an antioxidant nutraceutical Cucumis melo extract rich in superoxide dismutase activity,” Abstract included at the XVI International AIDS Conference Aug 2006


23/ Rahman H., Rocco R., Tabassum V. “The effects of a specialized superoxide dismutase nutritional supplement for HIV patients on HAART” Center for Family of Health of St. Mary’s, Hoboken NJ. 2004 Contributed by Millennium Biotechnologies, Inc.


Does this seem legit to you?


Last edited by Whisper9999 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Whisper9999



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
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Location: Sunny Southwest

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, the glisodin.org site has a link that says "inhibit vascular inflammation". Unless this is a conspiracy of some sort, I can't imagine that it could reduce vascular inflammation and improve immune function in various patients and systems due to an acute immune respone to the gliadin, etc., could it?

Also, it appears to help with sun burn reduction. There's a whole set of studies just on that subject.

And you can print off a summary of the studies in pdf btw...
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've simply been theorizing as to what could explain the SOD increase that is allegedly much greater than SOD amount absorbed from Glisodin Iif that's indeed a real phenomenon). I am not saying it is necessarily due to reaction to gluten -- I could come up with other theories. But the point is that if this phenomenon is real, only actual studies can determine the cause. (Incidentally, does the manufacturer offer an explanation?).

In any case, people with gluten sensitivity should be careful with this supplement. Notably, gluten sensitivity is sometimes not obvious and may manifest, for example, as neuropathy rather than a GI syndrome.
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