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Under eye sleep/compression wrinkles - masques or pillows?

 
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mmokc



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Under eye sleep/compression wrinkles - masques or pillows? Reply with quote

I've been lucky enough to have pretty good skin so far (37 yo male), however I've been accumulating sleep wrinkles that are really starting to look odd on me. I still have a somewhat boyish looking face in most regards, and have virtually no crows feet. I have lines on my forehead, but I've had them since I was a teenager. Otherwise, the rest of my face looks pretty smooth except for these diagonal lines running from the corner of my eyes to just past the mid-way point beneath each eye. The right side of my face is worse than the left, with a line or two extending down just into the top of the cheek. Not only do the wrinkles look bad, they just look odd and out of place.

These are not the little creases people get from time to time, these are compression wrinkles from side sleeping. (I can push lightly on the skin on the side of my face and fold it right at these wrinkles; the compression or folding is not deep, nor are the wrinkles themselves, but with overhead lighting they definitely show.)

Unfortunately, I cannot train myself to sleep on my back without eventually causing myself pain, and after 37 years I just can't keep from flipping over in bed onto my side. I've tried a variety of pillows designed to help you train yourself, but it just doesn't help.

I have also tried a satin sleep mask, which has not helped.

My next option is a $60 pillow that supports the side of the head around the forehead at top, and then around the chin at bottom, leaving the mid-face area open and free of compression. This looks good in theory.

What I'm wondering, though, is how anyone else copes with these. I've talked to many people who can't believe these things can cause permanent wrinkles, but it seems intuitive to me, and since these are the exact wrinkles I can recreate via compression in a test it seems this is the obvious cause. (In addition to natural aging, puffiness during sleep, etc.)

I've considered "Frownies" to hold that skin in place at night with a firm piece of paper, but I worry that I may just be transfering stretching or compressive forces to other parts of the skin.

One thing someone mentioned was using a facial masque, the kind that hardens, just in the affected area and using it overnight, maybe every other night, the idea being just to provide a little extra support to that skin to help alleviate some of the folding. Unfortunately, all of the masques I look at indicate no more than 15 minutes of wear time, 30 at most. Does anyone have a suggestion for one that could be used overnight in this way? (I found an M.D. Forte hydra-masque that says it can be worn overnight, but it sounds as though it is not a hardening masque.)
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1044

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'wrinkles' you are describing seem like what I have. They are visible when light is overhead or behind me. They run from corner of my eyes diagonally on my cheeks, passing below the cheekbone, separating what I call middle cheek from the cheek bone (which I call upper cheek). In my case those separation lines are exactly on the so called 'malar septum' and are result of volume fat loss. The only chance of correction is fillers or plastic surgery to restore the volume and erase the transition lines between the two regions.

If your wrinkles look like mine i.e. slightly depressed transition 'valleys' between two cheek regions not like the usual etched crows feet, I doubt they are caused from the way you sleep.
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sdguy



Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Under eye sleep/compression wrinkles - masques or pillow Reply with quote

I think we're in the same situation, I'm a 37yo male and have noticed those lines too. They basically run perpendicular to crows feet and are definitely caused by sleeping on your side or, in my case, stomach.

I've also tried retraining myself to sleep on my back with very limited success and have bookmarked the pillow you're talking about. Another option, if you haven't completely given up sleeping on your back is this pillow that cradles your head to keep you from turning over painreliever.com/cor131.html. I don't know if it works, but I'm leaning towards one of these alternatives. As far as fixing the lines, I think orangehrzn is right when he says plastic surgery is the only fix, if I fix my sleep prob I may look into fillers or laser resurfacing.

Let me know if you have any success with the other solutions you mentioned.
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mmokc



Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll check into that pillow.

Yes, these lines, from what I can tell, seem to fall in the area of the malar septum, or into the "tear troughs". I can't really tell that there's a real loss of fat, but I've already been considering fat augmentation in that area simply because I've always had - particularly on the right side, which is worse - prominent tear troughs, and it's always been my impression that plumpness in that spot plays a major role in the perception of youth. (A youth cue, which is something at my age in my industry I'm very concerned with.)

Certainly, additional fat loss could be exacerbating the problem, but I'm quite certain a large portion of the culprit is nightly compression. I managed once (coincidentally, with a back sprain) to avoid laying on that side of my face for nearly a week and noticed a significant improvement, so I'm still chasing that possibly fruitless solution. I have also used facial tape (not the same stiffness as "Frownies") and seen improvement that persists, however it's not feasible to wear the stuff more than a night or two in a row for me before it causes skin problems that make my appearance far worse. (I have sensitive skin.)

I'll let you know, as I'll be ordering that pillow today and giving it a try.

Thanks again for your replies.
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Nightbird



Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi mmokc,

I know exactly what your going through, as I just found this forum after googling "eye sleep wrinkles". I was blessed with good Mediterranean skin, and large almond shaped eyes on an oval face. Back in the early 90's when I modeled, my eyes were my biggest attraction, and I always took really good care to only use the best eye creams I could find. Actually, I should say the best eye cream, because there was only one eye cream I could tolerate that actually made a difference with wrinkles while I had it on, and I still use it after wasting so much money on others that 99% of the time irritated my eyes -Lancome Progres Eye Cream. It doesn't really diminish wrinkles, as it has no exfoliating properties, peptides, or anything else that may be too harsh or cause irritation. It's just a super rich and high moisturizing cream, and it does a great job of filling in the wrinkles and softening them up while your wearing it.

Ok back to the sleep wrinkles. I also sleep on my side, and I can't sleep on my back no matter how I try. This past year I have really noticed these sleep wrinkles appearing under my eyes, to the point that even with my eye cream they are still a bit visible. Skin is like paper, the drier it is the more it is going to wrinkle up, but just like wet paper can't be wrinkled, it's the same for skin. However that being said, no matter how much eye cream you put on, if your smashing your face into a pillow, your going to get sleep wrinkles, and add to that the normal skin changes of aging, and you have an issue alright. The only thing that I have found that worked for me was to use skin tape under my eyes. This only makes sense of course, because these wrinkles are being caused by smashing the skin into folds while sleeping, so it's only reasonable to assume that if you stabilize the skin matrix with a substance like tape, you won't get the wrinkle. This is very important to remember, because this means that no matter how many "filler" treatments you give wrinkles ONLY caused by sleep, if you keep smashing your face into your pillow, the problem will keep reoccuring..kind of like washing your car and then continuing to drive through mud puddles and keep expecting your car to look clean.

Back to the tape. So after taping underneath both my eyes ( I used 3M Transpore tape), when I woke up, I suddenly discovered just how painful it was to remove this tape from my undereye area..ouch! My eyes were watering bigtime with the pain as the adhesive had all night to really bond to my sensitive eye area, not to mention the stretching and pulling it was doing..big mistake using this type of tape! Well, after I removed it all and recovered from the pain, tearing and redness..lol..I couldn't believe how smooth my eye area was..it looked totally incredible! So, my quest leads me to where you were at when you wrote your last reply..seeking something to stabilize my eye area while I sleep. I researched Frownies, which I have never used, and it turns out just to be brown kraft paper that is gummed on one side. So what I am planning on doing is buying some gummed kraft paper tape (they sell them in rolls like duct tape apparently) and try that. The main reason I want to try this route is that I am assuming that in the morning you could just wet the paper and it should remove fairly easily. If it doesn't, then I may just break down and spend the extra cash on the original Frownies, although they are a huge ripoff when you consider a large roll of brown gummed kraft paper is only about 4-5 bucks. I have also looked at masks like yourself, but have not found one that will adhere enough to stay all night and provide a firm enough stabilizing effect -if the mask is flexible, the wrinkle will still occure. But I really do think at this point the Frownies type of route is the best course of action, and I wouldn't worry about the Frownies transfering any pressure to surrounding skin, because those who use it for the furrows between their eyes claim it doesn't do that. and they haven't had any issues with "line transferance" so to speak.

My eyes have always been my "trademark" so to speak, so I am taking this issue very seriously, because nothing ages you more than lined eyes in my opinion. If you find anything that works for you please message me, and I will do the same for you. Thanks for making this thread and take care!

:wink:
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greendesigner



Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

You mention a pillow for 69 dollars, what sort of pillow is it and where can I buy it? Fellow sufferer
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jones10021



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you should try to sleep on a memory foam pillow.
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Allyssa



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 90
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: sleep wrinkles Reply with quote

sdguy, what is this pillow you are referring to supposed to do?
I have tried frownies and they are a pain to use. I feel like they pull my skin when I take them off. The results are okay but they don't last. There is a pillow called "save my face" that is supposed to work for sleep wrinkles. It is available online and on ebay. If you like your current pillow, you can purchse the pillowette which is smaller and can be placed on top of your own pillow. Has anyone tried it? I am so tempted as I am a side sleeper also!
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jazzpollard



Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:12 am    Post subject: Hiiii Reply with quote

Eight hours of sleep
is necessary and recommended for all.

Apply cucumber
or potato juice on the eyes with cotton balls. This is a very useful dark circles remedy.

Apply a mixture of lemon and tomato juice on the dark circles twice a day. Good Home Remedy for Dark Circles.

Application of good wrinkle creams could also be beneficial!!!! Another Good Home Remedy for Dark Circles.
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