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Argirline *NOT* safe? uh oh, .........look!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject: Argirline *NOT* safe? uh oh, .........look! Reply with quote

acetyl hexapeptide-3. A synthetically derived peptide. The company selling acetyl hexapeptide-3 (trade name Argireline), Centerchem (www.centerchem.com), is based in Spain and, according to their Web site, "Argireline works through a unique mechanism which relaxes facial tension leading to a reduction in superficial facial lines and wrinkles with regular use.

Argireline has been shown to moderate excessive catecholamines release."

"I strongly doubt that any of that is true because there isn't a shred of research substantiating any part of it. However, even if it were vaguely true, that would not be good news for your body because you wouldn't want a cosmetic without any safety data, efficacy documentation, or independent research messing around with your catecholamines. "


OKAY, so what does this mean? I'm currently in my FIRST WEEK using a product containing argirline (hexapeptide-3) around my eyes, and I apply it twic a day, and today I slightly over-did it.


I got this product from Sav-On though, it's a basic line/wrinkle fighter you can get over the counter.

Does that mean it's still not safe to use?

I have seen results with the product I'm using (it's VITA-K solution for Deep Lines and Wrinkles)


But now that I read this info, I am really concerned.


DR : your advice/help would highly be appreciated regarding this matter..


much thanks..
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

**that info came from: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/dictionary.asp?TYPE=MAIN
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drTOVO;

any answers regarding this topic?

much thanks..
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my general view of Argireline, see my article http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/acetylhexapeptide.html

FYI, there are more ingredients in skin care that lack sufficient safety / efficacy data than those for which such data is available. Argireline is not unique in being poorly substantiated as a skin care treatment.

Whether one wants to be a test subject in a hope that an unproven treatments turns out beneficial is a matter of personal philosophy -- just as gambling and playing a lottery is. However, before even considering unproven treatments, why not first try things that have at least some credible evidence behind them? See http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments


Last edited by drtodorov on Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
For my general view of argeriline, see my article http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/acetylhexapeptide.html

FYI, there are more ingredients in skin care that lack sufficient safety / efficacy data than those for which such data is available. Argeriline is not unique in being poorly sunstantiated as a skin care treatment.

Whether one wants to be a test subject in a hope that an unproven treatments turns out beneficial is a matter of personal philosophy -- just as gambling and playing a lottery is. However, before even considering unproven treatments, why not first try things that have at least some credible evidence behind them? See http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments


dorov, thanks, but I still can't seem to get why you're trying to say..

I read the general view on argirline that you posted.

is it safe, is my question? If I use it around my eyes?

thanks....and sorry, but I didn't understand what you said above.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, argirline is under "popular but unproven topical treatments" on that site, but I've been using it for a week now and have seen MAJOR improvements!

as opposed to retinol, which I used for about 20 weeks and saw absolutely NO difference in my skin.

1st week with argirline and it seems like it's been 20 weeks in terms of effectiveness (it worked that fast).
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
is it safe, is my question? If I use it around my eyes?


I can't tell you for sure if it is safe around the eyes or elsewhere because there is no safety data I can rely upon. I didn't see any feedback from people reporting any major adverse reactions, but this is a new product, so lack of negative feedback does not mean lack of adverse reactions.

Quote:
BTW, argirline is under "popular but unproven topical treatments" on that site, but I've been using it for a week now and have seen MAJOR improvements!


"Unproven" in this context does not necessarily mean "proven ineffective", it only means that there are no sufficient studies showing it's effectiveness. For some products, many studies were conducted and none showed effectiveness. For others, like argeriline, no or very few studies have been done. Perhaps when such studies are done, they will show effectiveness of argeriline.
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Susan0001



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of an improvement did you see?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Susan0001 wrote:
What kind of an improvement did you see?


my lines around my eyes were almost entirely gone within the first week of use.

i just hope it can continue to improve/eventually lessen the lines in the longrun..
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Donna



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: wrinkles gone Reply with quote

I've never heard of eye wrinkles almost disappearing within a week-maybe slightly soften, but not almost disappear-unless of course one has had botox injections.
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cjdavis



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 191
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Argirline *NOT* safe? uh oh, .........look! Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
"I strongly doubt that any of that is true because there isn't a shred of research substantiating any part of it. However, even if it were vaguely true, that would not be good news for your body because you wouldn't want a cosmetic without any safety data, efficacy documentation, or independent research messing around with your catecholamines. "

Well actually it has been shown to be efficacious and was published in a peer reviewed journal so that statement is false. He or She is correct though about the safety data, and I have stated my concern with the whole catecholamine thing here before if the chemical can enter systemic circulation. But so far i haven't heard of any problems...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJ, so does that mean when I put it around my eyes it can enter my eye blood area?

surely they wouldn't allow this to be an OTC product if it cleary says on the product 'apply anywhere where wrinkles show' - meaning eye area as well.



what do you think?
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truthonly



Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Peer reviewed journal? Reply with quote

cjdavis, you mentioned argireline and it's effects have been published in a peer reviewed journal. Can you give me a reference of which journal, volume etc so that I can read it?
Thanks
T
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cjdavis



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Peer reviewed journal? Reply with quote

truthonly wrote:
cjdavis, you mentioned argireline and it's effects have been published in a peer reviewed journal. Can you give me a reference of which journal, volume etc so that I can read it?
Thanks
T

Sorry. I haven't visit the site in a while, i've been way too busy =) Here is the link to the abstract. http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1467-2494.2002.00153.x
Hope this helps!
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Lili



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a differnt experience:

http://www.spectacularskin.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.cgi?read=52309

A letter from Hellie to my regarding her experience:

The cream I used was Avatone and it has (or at least had at that time) 15-percent argireline. I guess that is a high concentration. At that time, it was called Avatox.
When it first came out as Avatox, the instructions stated that it was safe to use all over the face and neck, twice a day. I used it as a moisturizer as it did leave my skin smooth - too smooth. The thing that should have stopped me dead in my tracks is that it would actually cause numbness on my face and it would last almost all day. It felt sort of like Novocain.
Some of the facial muscles are attached right to the skin, so it does act like Botox in that it can penetrate enough to freeze the muscles and the nerves, especially at 15-percent. I had nerve damage that resulted in over-relaxation of the muscles. Apparently I wasn't the only person this happened to because the company got sued.
After the lawsuit was settled, they returned the product as Avatone, with an argireline concentration of 10-percent and new instructions that recommend it be use only on target areas but that if it is used on the entire face it should be used sparingly. They also lowered the price significantly. It now sells for about $90 a jar. I was paying $120.
When I noticed the sag I went to my doctor because along with the sag I developed a numbness on one side of my face that wouldn't go away. I thought I had a stroke. He sent me to an internist and the argireline was in my bloodstream. I had a skin penetration test and I have a high penetration rate. Some people do and some don't. The thinner one is, the more likely they have higher penetration. I was also told to be careful because any cream can enter the bloodstream through the mucus membranes. I wouldn't recommend anyone use argireline near the eyes, nose or mouth.
I think in the smaller concentration it is relatively safe for most people. One of the things most women who use it reported that skin becomes like putty. If you were to touch your skin, it would leave an indentation that would take days to go away. So if you woke up with creases on your face from your pillow, those creases would remain for about three days.
My doctor told me that at a high concentration it can act like Botox in that with long-term use it can cause permanent damage. It's kind of like when someone who has used Botox for years with no problems and wakes up one day and can't get an eye to open.
The bottom line is that my doctor explained to me that you can't keep numbing or freezing the nerve endings because they will eventually die from the lack of blood circulation.
If you are selling products containing argireline, you might want to suggest that it not be used near the tear duct, the nostrils or the upper lip area.


Another link:

http://www.spectacularskin.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.cgi?read=52568

Don't want to be an alarmist, but it's good to hear the other side. We are using 'actives'.
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