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Barefootgirl



Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: 302 products? Reply with quote

Are any of you familiar with these? I am not sure if I am allowed to post the link, but they are apparently serums comprised of various oils and derivatives of Vitamins A and C that are not acid based.

The creator of the products claims that acid is not good for the skin...not ascorbic acid, not retinoic acid, not alpha or beta, glycolic, lactic - nothing. He claims they cause more skin aging.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3058

PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These products are based primarily on the compounds found avocado oil - not derivatives of vitamins A or C.

Incidentally, retinoic acid is so weak as an acid that it does not alter skin pH.
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keli13



Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are alot of ladies using this line over at the EDS forum. If you've never been there before here's the link to the main thread about 302. If you search the site you will probably find even more information. Sorry this site won't let me post the direct link. Just go to this site and follow my directions. You'll gain alot of knowledge about 302 from reading this.

essentialdayspa.com

Go the forum and click on Product Reviews Forum. You'll see a very long thread about 302 skincare near he top.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1044

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't understand why use some overpriced and probably overhyped 'product' when you can just splash pure avocado oil, with better results and much lower price ....
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MBGirl



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

302 products are truly amazing, and I, too, was initially skeptical of the big claims. The products don't contain plain old avocado oil (so no, splashing avocado oil on your face won't compare, although it is a great moisturizer). The key products contain a derivative of avocado called avocatin that, when applied topically, puts avocatin levels in the skin akin to the levels of that active if a particular strain of avocado were the mainstain of your diet. I hope I've explained that clearly. I thought it was hogwash until I tried the line, my concern being ten year old acne depressions/scars on my cheek tha I couldn;t get rid of, despite trying surgical and topical treatment methods. As others reported, my acne scars did indeed fill in very considerably, to about an 80% improvement so far, after about 6 months of using 302. To add to that improvement, my usually very red and ruddy skin tone became settled...no more redness!!! I no longer need to wear foundation to have the look of even skin tone. I LOVE, love, love 302 skincare! I still use 302 skincare, still love it, still have not experienced ANY irritation or break outs, and still see improvement in my old acne scarring. (As well, in the winter, I use Olay moisturizer.) The 302 line does indeed have non-acidic vitamin A and Vitamin C products, in addition to the avocatin based 302 Drops and Serums.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3058

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I recall, they believe that the main active ingredient in 302 line is a particular fat-soluble derivative of furan found in avocados in small amounts. The 302 products, apparently, contain that ingredient in much higher concentrations, not attainable by simply applying avocado oil. Unfortunately, I haven't yet seen this confirmed in any independent clinical studies but that may be a question of funding and not necessarily the indication that the products do not work.
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freckleface



Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it theoretically possible for the 302 skincare line to accomplish all it claims, when it does not have the ability to penetrate the skin?
"Assessment of Toxicological Data. Avocatin 302 does not penetrate skin" nicnas.gov.au/PUBLICATIONS/CAR/NEW/NA/NASUMMR/NA0200SR/na257.asp
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3058

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a toxiological study, probably meaning that topical avocatin does not penetrate the skin in the amount sufficient to be meaningfully detectable in systemic circulation and therefore probably not systemically toxic. This does not necessarily mean that small but biologically active amounts cannot reach cells in the dermis and produce some skin effects.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1044

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain avocado oil calms irritated skin and evens out skin color towards creamy white (for caucasians). Non irritated skin looks better even with scars and I personally do not believe anecdotal reports that scars fill in at all. Filling a scar and making a scar looking better are two different things. Even lasers have questionable success in scar filling with their undoubted collagen stimulating properties. If something really fills in scars, which I seriously doubt, then it would be all over acne.org and the magical drops surely arent.

The whole idea that making skin produce more collagen will fill a depression is plain ridiculous. Think about it, if you have a depression and you put more matter under the depression, everywhere equally, you will just lift the depression, not fill it in ....

The only thing that might work is to break the scar tissue somehow and make the skin replace it, thats what the limited success of lasers is due to.

I seriously doubt some topical, be it magical drops or even Retin A can break scar tissue.
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MBGirl



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orangehrzn, whether you choose to believe me or not is irrelevant to me, and thoroughly unimportant as well. I do know the difference between improving the appearance of an atrophic scar and actually causing collagen remodeling and filling. The 302 Drops and Serum actually caused my atrophic scars to fill in to about 80 % improvement. In the past I have tried subcision, injectible fillers, excision, as well as topical retinoids, without considerable improvement. Nothing worked well. I have some relevant experience on this topic, so please lose your arrogant and persistent assumption that you know more than anyone else on this board, which given my reading of the vast majority of message here, is your modus operandi. You do not know more, so step away from the podium, please. Your self-righteous attitude is tiresome.

Yes, plain avocado oil indeed does calm skin somewhat (as does olive oil), although it never addressed facial ruddiness for me. I used avocado oil prior to trying 302. There is no comparison. I love avocado oil, both as a topical moisturizer and a food source, as I think it's benefits are wonderful. However, avocado oil (both cold-pressed unprocessed and the more golden-toned processed) did nothing to even out my skin tone anymore than a regular moisturizer would, and certainly it did not fill in depressions or atrophic scars.

I, too, was skeptical of the claims about 302, having tried almost everything to improve my scars (see above), but the fact of the matter is, my old atrophic acne scars improved by 80% upon using 302, and they continue to improve by fillling in consistently. Moreover, I have stopped using 302 since the start of the summer, as a break from using 302 is recommended by the product's developer, and my skin has maintained it's level of improvement.

Lastly, I've worn foundation makeup for my entire adult life because my skin tone was red, ruddy and uneven. Since using 302 I have not needed foundation, even when I take a break from 302.

Whether you choose to believe me or not doesn't matter a bit to me; the 302 products are AMAZING!!!!
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MBGirl



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS Given the prices of most topical skincare products, 302 is not expensive!

I saw filling of my atrophic acne scars (which were at least ten years old, not new) while using my first bottle. I started with the oil-based 302 Drops, which I think cost about $80-90 and lasted a few months. I then switched to the Plus Serum, which is not oil-based and thus easier to wear during the daytime, which cost about $95-100 if I recall, also lasting about three or four months. You are only to use small amounts of these products. I think I got the most significant improvement (scar filling and redness reduction) from the Drops but I can't be sure if that is because of the formula or because it was the first time I used avocatin on my skin.

I do get improvement from both products, though, and in my opinion, given the cost of everything else I tried that didn't work well, 302 is a bargain. I only use the avocado bar soap (about $15 and a bar has lasted me about 3 months) and the Plus Serum when I use 302 products (I'm taking a break from it June until Sept.) and rarely in the winter I'll use an Olay moisturizer as needed.

I think that is an affordable skin care plan, especially since it actually works!
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1044

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow .... such a neurotic reaction accompanied by name calling just because someone doesn't belive you? Do you think this is a popularity contest in junior high? LOL

If my skin was that perfect as you claim yours is and someone didn't belive me all I would say is 'Pffffttt ....' and maybe I won't even bother with that.

I hope you will let us know when your scar is 100% erased. I don't want to believe the cheap $100/oz magical drops decided to stop at 80% ...
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1044

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did some research on avocadin produced by CrodaRom. Basically it is concentrated extract of 'unsaponifiables' from avocado oil (at most 10 times bigger concentration than avocado oil itself) remixed with some avocado oil.

It can be bought for $7 / 8 oz (a dollar an oz) on ebay, just google avocadin. Looks like soft wax on the pics.

Recommended level is 2-10% in formulation.

NEWS FLASH: If avocadin is 10 times more concentrated than avocado oil but is to be used at 10% level (rarefying it 10 times) that means 10% of avocadin is equivalent to 100% avocado oil. So buy avocado oil from grocery and slap on face - same thing as avocadin. Of course avocadin may be more cosmetically elegant, avocado oil is too oily for during the day but as night moisturizer who cares. If you still want avocadin buy it from ebay. No need for magical SERIOUSLY OVERPRICED drops! How did they get to $100/oz I wonder ????

The fact that the 'magical drops' are sold only through "practitioners" not online or in regular stores is just a marketting trick to make the high price look like this is a professional product almost a medicine that is not available to mortals and you are lucky to get it through your "skin care provider". Otherwise nobody will buy it - try to sell magical drops for $100/oz at Walgreens see what happens ... LOL Next, the drops actually contain well known irritants like lavender oil, camphor and mint ... Why? Cause to smell good and tingle as if something is happening the moment you apply it is more important for sales than to focus on an actual non irritable product which the avocado oil is by itself ....
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drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3058

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. From some info I received from the company some years ago, I had an impression that the active ingredient was a specific compound, an oil soluble derivative of furan. Their studies in mice and tissues culture were performed with this compound, if I recall correctly. I assumed that was what they called avocatin -- perhaps I was wrong...
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MBGirl



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one called them "magical drops", orangehrzn, nor did I say my skin was perfect. It is not. Your reading comprehension skills could stand improvement, and losing that chip from your shoulder may lighten your negativity load as well.

What I did say is that my old atrophic acne scars have filled in to about 80% improvement since using 302. I'm happy with 80% improvement, it is a better result than the other treatments I have undergone. Even surgical intervention (excision, subscision, etc) results in less 100% improvement of depressed acne scars, as they are so difficult to treat. Many other users of 302 report similarly positive results, and their messages can be seen on the EDS forum.

Lavender oil, camphor and/or mint are irritants in moderate concentrations, but at low concentrations can actually soothe irritation.

Orangehzn, your research skills are woefully lacking, despite your chest pounding and soapboxing to feign otherwise.

Dr. Todorov is correct, avocatin is what he described. It is correctly spelled avocaTin, orangehrzn, not avocaDin.

And neurotic? Pot, kettle, orangehrzn. Anyone can read the archives here and figure out your issues. Good luck with your skin!
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