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Copper Peptides
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yogagirl



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Copper Peptides Reply with quote

I have been looking at copper peptide serums, and some of them say that they are "real" copper peptides, while other products just contain soy proteins in copper chloride & apparently are not real peptides. What is a copper peptide? Doc? I tried to look it up online, but just got more confused. :cry:
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copper peptide is a tight molecular complex of a copper ion and a peptide (a short chain of amino acids). Only particular peptides are effective when combined with copper.

The original research was done with copper peptide GHK-Cu by Dr. Picart, from Skin Bilogy. More recently he has been working on the so-called second generation copper peptides. If I recall correctly, from my brief discussion with him, the second generation peptides are supposed to be more stable and more specifically targeted for skin rejuvenation. (GHK-Cu was originally developed for wound healing.) The peptides used in producing 2nd generation CP can be isolated (according to Dr. Pickart) from hydrolysed soy protein. Dr. Pickart stated that 2nd generation CP are supported by research data but I have not been able to find any publications in peer reviewed journals. Perhaps it has to with patenting issues, or perhaps the supporting evidence remains insufficient.

If 2nd generation CP are indeed effective, then one can make them by taking soy protein, hydrolysing it, isolating proper peptides and adding copper chloride. In that case the ingredient list could say "... hydrolysed soy protein, copper chloride, ..."

The bottom line is: it might be that those "soy protein + copper" creams in reality contain 2nd generation CP and it might be that 2nd generation CP are as good or better than GHK-Cu. However, this is a speculation and will remain a speculation until there are peer reviewed studies of the 2nd generation CP as well as more transparent labeling of products.

Sorry that I couldn't be more definitive - I wish Dr. Pickart would publish or post more data on his 2nd generation CP.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Doctor...you did clear things up, even though there isn't a definite answer yet. So should I be looking to the first-generation peptides since they have been proven?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: copper peptiedes Reply with quote

In your opinion is the compound GHK-Cu more effective than the copper combined with soy?
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have enough hard data on these 2nd generation peptides to form an opinion. Dr. Pickart mentions four small human studies, but it doesn't seem they were published -- at least there are no references provided.
Here's what is stated on Dr. Pickart's site:

----------------------

"... In 1994, I [Dr. Pickart ] started Skin Biology to develop a improved second generation of skin regenerative copper peptides with enhanced potency, breakdown resistance, a longer duration of action and high adherence to skin. We found a fraction of peptide fragments from soy protein that possessed the desired qualities when chelated to copper (II). Such soy peptides have a very low antigenicity and long history of safe use in cosmetic products. In humans, Howard Maibach and colleagues at San Francisco tested these new copper peptides in four small, placebo-controlled human studies. They found that creams made from these new copper complexes produced significantly faster skin healing and reduced redness and inflammation after mild skin injuries induced by tape stripping, acetone burns (removal of skin lipids), 24-hour detergent irritation, and nickel allergy inflammation."
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neutrogena has a line of products 'Visibly Firm' that contain 'active copper' as they call it. Looking at the ingredients list at drugstore.com the active ingredient is Copper Tripeptide-1.

Is that a good peptide that stimulates collagen production? Also I've read some warning about copper actually stumulating collagen disintegration so is the above peptide safe?
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drtodorov
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What they call copper tripeptide-1 is probably the "classic" GHK-Cu copper peptide, which is a tripeptide, but I can't say for sure, you'll have to ask Neutrogena.

About safety - overall, copper stimulates skin remodelling occurring in 2nd phase of wound healing when scar tissue is replaced by more normal collagen. This involves both stimulation of destruction of scar collagen and synthesis of more normal collagen. For most people, the net result is smoother skin. However, there are rare cases when individual reacton to copper is such that collagen degradation predominates, which may lead skin deterioration rather than improvement. This is rare but can happen. Therefore, if one considers trying copper peptides, it is best to test on one's arm for at least a couple of weeks before trying it on the face.
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yogagirl



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Thank you all for the great advice! Now at least I know what to look for. I didn't even know what a peptide really was! Thanks everybody. :D
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cjdavis



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 191
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
What they call copper tripeptide-1 is probably the "classic" GHK-Cu copper peptide, which is a tripeptide, but I can't say for sure, you'll have to ask Neutrogena.

I'd be willing to bet that it is the same too. Dr. Todorov, do you happen to know if the Cu is charged? ie, is it Cu(II) or Cu(I)?
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cjdavis



Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 191
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjdavis wrote:
drtodorov wrote:
What they call copper tripeptide-1 is probably the "classic" GHK-Cu copper peptide, which is a tripeptide, but I can't say for sure, you'll have to ask Neutrogena.

I'd be willing to bet that it is the same too. Dr. Todorov, do you happen to know if the Cu is charged? ie, is it Cu(II) or Cu(I)?

I just checked it's Cu2+ Hmmm perhaps i have overlooked this as a "wrinkle fighter" I wish we had more published in vivo studies using topical formultions, fibroblast cell cultures are nice but a far cry from proving topical efficacy....
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guapagirl



Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using CPs for about 6 months. I haven't noticed any huge changes, but at the same time my skin is looking pretty damn good :D

They may not be able to reverse aging if the skin is good to start with, but I think they help with the maintenance of good skin and may help with skin that is severely damaged. If I get a burn, and apply CPs, it heals almost overnight, so I figure it must be doing something!
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read the aricle about copper peptides on this site. The first copper peptide product for wound healing was 'Iamin gel'.

Is this available nowadays, did somebody have any experience with it and is it over the counter?

I hope it's cheaper than the usual overpriced cosmetics creams ...


Last edited by orangehrzn on Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Iamin Gel Reply with quote

I have the Iamin. I got it at dermadoctor.com
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! I thought the name is Lamin but actually it is Iamin. I got it at dermadoctor.com but it contains glycerin there - my skin doesnt like it.

I also got it here http://www.folica.com/Iamin_Hydrating_d945.html

Ingredients:
Purified Water, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Benzyl Alcohol, Prezatide Copper Acetate, Sodium Chloride


Seems really good oil free base ...

Dr. Todorov, is 'Prezatide Copper Acetate' a copper peptide?
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prezatide is not a chemical or otherwise meaningful name. It seems that Neova calls GHK-Cu in their products Prezatide. (Similarly to how others call palmitoyl pentapeptide, Matrixyl, for example).
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