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Copper Peptides
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: neova instead of the serum? Reply with quote

guest wrote:
Dr. Do you believe the neova creme de la copper cream to be as effective as the skin bio. serum? I have both, but I like the cream as it is more moisturizing.


I don't have enough data to make a meaningful comparison. See users' product reviews on this site, it may give you some idea.

http://www.smartskincare.com/reviews/product/brandidx/neova/
http://www.smartskincare.com/reviews/product/brandidx/skin-biology/
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yogagirl wrote:
The CP Serum really does seem to be helping with my redness (ruddiness). It has improved greatly - in just a few days!


Well this is the 3rd day I am using skin biology CP serum and it hasn't decreased my redness. I apply it in the morning and before bed only on the right side of my face - without exfoliation. I don't apply anything on left side - it is my control. So far no difference between both sides. I also take digital pics everyday - I intend to post them in skin boilogy forum cause some people there believe the serum reducess redness and it would be good to see the other side of the story.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is uncommon for any skin treatment to produce visible changes in just a few days, except when treating acute inflammation with potent antiinflammatories (e.g. dermatitis treated with steroids).

For a fair test, you need to give it some more time to work. That said, there is no clinical proof at present that copper peptides help rosacea. Keep us posted.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The goal of this short week study is to evaluate if copper peptide alone can reduce rosacea or pre-rosacea redness on one week time scale cause that is what yogagirl seems to have said.
yogagirl wrote:
I do like the serum a lot. It has taken the redness out of my cheeks (always there), but the smell is pretty rank! LOL!


Then I am going to investigate how CopPep reduce post exfoliation redness (people with sensitive skin know what I am talking about - skin get red even from modest amounts of AHA or BHA) - again on one week time scale - if the test fails meaning the copper peptide don't accelerate healing/redness reduction I am simply going to ditch them cause the skin remodeling claims of CopPep are based on it's healing powers and if there arent such powers I have the right not to waste my time and money.

Most people on the skin biology forum that claim to have achieved some 'skin remodeling' are using a combo of CopPep+exfoliation (usually 2% Salicilyc but some do 40% Lactic acid peel once per week)+Biological Oils (like Emu Oil). If there is really some skin remodeling it can't be attributed to CopPep alone since they are using several products at once. Moreover remodeling power of AHA and BHA are proven in studies while the CopPep are not. So it is much probable that the work is done by the acids + oils to calm down inflamation than from the overpriced CopPep. Of course as is usually the case, the reports on their forum are pretty subjective and brain washed ...

Recently one member on skinbiology forum told me that she 'eliminated large pores, spider veins, thickened her skin and erased nasal labial folds' in one week time with CopPep. No comment on this one but you can guess what I am thinking ...


Last edited by orangehrzn on Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:31 pm; edited 4 times in total
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish more people would test the products they buy via a split face trial and photos under controlled camera and lighting conditions. Then cosmetic companies will be under more pressure to come up with products that actually work. Good luck with your trial.

However, keep in mind that even with effective products, there are variations in individual response. What works for one person in a week, could take two weeks for another, or fail to work at all.
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guapagirl



Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all fairness, I find comments such as yoga girl's misleading, although a friend I gave a sample of my CP serum to was impessed enough within a week to buy some herself.

As to them being expensive, I disagree. a 4 oz bottle of CP has lasted me for well over 6 months and that is with me using it daily, including upper chest area and having sent out at least 10z as samples to friends for burns etc. My daughter also uses it to help heal acne when she's picked at it. I still have at least 1oz left.

I agree that you get better results with exfoliation, but I'm pretty pleased with the reduction of a pretty deep scar I got following a GA peel last year (I haven't been using GA or any other chemical exfolients since except in the last month where I'm using a mild buffered one from cellular skin).

I apply this stuff to burns and other broken skin and it heals much faster.

I started the half face thing, but I got bored! Additionally, I think this is only really helpful if you sleep on your back, I find that my right side is always worse cos it gets squashed up on the pillow. I really do look my age in the mornings :lol:
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yogagirl



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is my post misleading? All I did is tell you how my skin reacted. It truly has taken the redness out of my skin. FYI, I am using it twice a day (in the morning & then at night). I don't know if that made my results happen faster or anything, but all I know is that my skin looks better than it ever did. I just really wish that they would make the serum smell better! It smells like they tried to cover it up with some cheap, floral smell, but it isn't working. But like someone else said, the smell does fade in a few minutes, so it's worth it I guess.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yogagirl, you said your redness was 'always there' so I assumed it is 'rosacea redness'. Do you have broken capillars in the red area?

Here is a digital closeup of my redness:
http://img238.echo.cx/my.php?image=img12044bt.jpg&tc=img238/4224/img12044bt.jpg

Is it the same type as yours?

From the pic, I think my redness is actually a network of broken capillaries with which CP serum won't help as my experiment shows so far.
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yogagirl



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't know if my redness is officially rosacea. But from what I've read online & my self-diagnosing (always a bad idea!), I think it might be. I am in between jobs right now, so I don't have health insurance to go to a dermatologist, so I am guessing.
As for your skin in your pic, it's kind of hard to tell since it is such a close up picture. I mean, each of your pores is as big as my pinky fingernail!

It doesn't look like my redness though from what I can tell. Mine seems to be more like "patches" of redness...like I got slapped in the face. Yours actually looks like inflammed pores, or maybe even razor burn? I'm no doctor though. And like I said, it's kind of hard to distinguish in your picture since it is zoomed in so much.
Sorry....I hope I helped a little?
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guapagirl



Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi yoga girl
I meant that your post was misleading in that it implied that CPs 'normally' have such fast results. I have been using CPs for 6 months plus and I have had results, but slowly and most users of CPs find that they happen slowly. That is all I meant. I was not in any way trying to imply that you were deliberatly misleading and I apologise if that is how it sounded.

Liz
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yogagirl



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Liz,
That's OK. I wasn't insulted or anything, I just didn't know what you meant by your remark. I didn't mean to mislead anybody. And I really don't know how copper peptides work - at all. You can see that I was the one who posted the first question on this thread to begin with. I am just happy that it is working for me. My skin is so sensitive - it is just always red. I started using a green tea cleansing milk a while ago & that has helped greatly. But since I started using the CP Serum, between the two the redness is practically gone. Maybe I'm just lucky? LOL!
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CarolAnn



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 26
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Copper Peptides Reply with quote

I just started using CP serum from Skin Biology three days ago. I'm diluting it with water to begin with because after reading on their forum I thought I should be cautious.

The only thing I've seen so far is after two days a skin tag on my neck came off.

I think the CP serum is the cheapest thing I've tried so far. 4 Oz of CP Serum and 4 Oz of exfol serum was just $50.00. That amount of product will last months and months.

My husband has rosacea on his nose. Are copper peptides used for that?


CarolAnn
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guapagirl



Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Yogagirl,

Thinking about it, what I should have said is your experience was perhaps untypical because it is generally understood that CPs take a long time to work. But, that said, my friend was so impressed with the small sample I sent her, she bought the serum. She didn't have roseacea, but felt that the skintone was much more even and radient.

Like orangezan, says though, is it just cosmetic or is it real? Personally at 40, I'm happy for cosmetic and I'll take real as a bonus!


PS, Orangezan, I'm paraphrasing your general veiw there, not quoting you directly. If I have misrepresented you, I apologise now :)
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends what kind of redness yogagilr is talking about. If that is inflamatory redness it is possible to diminish it with CopPep. If it is just blood vessels (like in my case which is first stage of rosacea) I don't think anything would help but lasers.

Here is a pic of my redness, this time not magnified:
http://img263.echo.cx/my.php?image=img142714hm.jpg

Signs of blood vessels redness is that it intensifies pretty fast when the blood inflow to the face increases and gets back to its constant level when the blood flow normalizes - I get redder when I splash water on my face, when I bend forward and rise, when I lift heavy weight I get tomatoe red and that extra redness goes away in a few minutes when my blood flow normalizes. The constant redness comes from the normal blood flow through the visible capillaries on the surface.
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drtodorov
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a very good point. Rosacea can predominantly be of vascular origin (dilated capillaries) or inflammatory (irritation, infection) or a combination of both (long-term inflammation often would eventually lead to permanently dilated capillaries. In predominantly vascular cases, CP are unlikely to be of any use.
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