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Spider veins
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Eva B
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:34 am    Post subject: Spider veins Reply with quote

Is there anything that can be done about these small reddish vains that doesnt involve surgery. I'd like to not only get rid of the ones I have, but prevent new ones as well.
Thanks
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drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3177

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are herbal extracts shown in several studies to help with venous insufficiency, including horse chestnut, butchers broom, gotu kola, and possibly grape seed extract (OPC). In some people, there is a correlation between venous insufficiency and spider veins, so these extracts (best used in standardized form) may prevent future progression of spider veins. However, there are no studies showing that they can reduce the existing spider veins, although there appear occasional anecdotal reports to that effect. Chances of reducing the existing spider veins by using supplements or creams with these extracts are probably modest and chances of eliminating spider veins this way are negligible.

Depending on the size and pattern of your spider veins, sclerotherapy and/or laser may be the options to consider. However, after the elimination, you still want to prevent progression, and that's when those herbs might have a role.

Or, yes, these is also an "urban legend" of vitmain K reducing spider veins. So far, there hans't been a single study to prove that.
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Veda



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 10
Location: New York

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As i know, spider veins are hard to remove with topical creams or applications. If they present in a small area sclerotherapy may be a good option, probably require one treatment. However for larger areas you may consider laser but it may require more than one treatment.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intense Pulse Light treatment eliminates spider veins too. It is not a laser (the light source is a strong flash lamp) and is less invasive than lasers supposedly. For sure it is cheaper than lasers.
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Love4GreatSkin



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 10
Location: California - Santa Monica

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Spider Veins Reply with quote

Ahh... I have spider viens too! I am 25 and am so sick of these siderviens.

I have tanned quite a bit this summer from going to the lake...but when winter comes it will suck.

I cannot afford to have this type of treatment...is there anything inexpensive?

Please let me know!

--Cassey
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skincarefreak



Joined: 05 Aug 2005
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does retinyl palmitate or acetate and copper promote spider veins? If I use those ingredients will they stimulate spider vein growth? Just thought to ask...
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rachelee



Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't waste your time with vit k. It didn't work for me.
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Lucy



Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Four IPL treatments worked for me but now I've started using "Vein Support " supplement with horse chestnut, butchers broom and other 'goodies' by Nature's Sunshine and grape seed extract to prevent them from re-occuring. .... and this is what Dr Todorov suggests too.
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marsto911



Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For facial telangectasias (red/blue veins), laser or IPL are the best.

For leg veins, injection is usually the best treatment. Laser can be done on leg veins but injection is better.

Cautery equipment (at very low settings) can be used to treat telangectasias.

I would not spend $ on creams and lotions, I think they would be a waste of my hard earned $$.

Veins tend to come back eventually.

If telangectasis are due to rosacea, getting rosacea treatment is very helpful.

M
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Arabella



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iíll be having IPL in a couple of weeks and am looking to try some kind of topical while healing to hopefully help with the fading. I canít help being curious about K creams seeing as some people do claim to get results using them. Given that there are so many different ones out there with different additional ingredients I assume that some would have more potential benefits than others because:

a) the percentage of K makes a difference, or at least in theory?

b) certain additional anti-inflammatory extracts added to the K cream improve the condition in certain individuals rather than the actual vitamin K?

Iím wondering how vitamin K would actually work synergistically with anti inflammatory ingredients like extracts of butchers broom, grape seed, horse chestnut etc (combined in some K products) when vit K is a coagulant and the others are anti-coagulant? Wouldnít they be working against each other? Is it better if one is going to try K topically to see if it can actually help coagulate, to use it in a plain but penetrating vehicle, particularly straight after IPL to further encourage coagulation?
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claudek



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got back from my first vasulight session. I look worse then before and my nose is all swolen and more bloody in the spider vein area. I am a little worried but the doctor said it is normal and happens for a few days..I hope.
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orangehrzn



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 1005

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you have to wait for the immune system to clear up the coajulated vessels if the procedure was successfull and that needs something like two weeks maybe.

I am at the end of my first week after V-beam laser. The bruising (bright purple spots below the epidermis where vessels absorbed a lot of light) resolved already but the polka dot redness (looks like moskito bites) hasn't resolved yet. Maybe in another week it will.
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claudek



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not think it would be so complex..(after) my face is quite blue and look like I had a good bar fight. I'm, told this is normal and blood and veins reside back into system.
Well, I hope it was worth it, but just hope it did not explode veins into more uglies...happened to my girlfriend.
Now I need an excuse to tell my colleagues what I happened..
a fight..hmm.
Keep you posted.
The doctor also told me to use La Roche Posay Cicaplast cream in a few days. Maybe I try Emu Oil too?
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Mike



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spider veins on the legs are different than spider veins on the face. On the face, they are usually telangectasias (small arterioles). The differences are significant.

On the legs, the veins are caused by leaky valves in larger veins. This usually happens when there has been a significant gain in total body fluid, such as pregnancy and obesity, but not always. Sometimes it is genetic. The leaky valves allow the blood to apply backward (retrograde) pressure on the walls of the larger veins, which then sprout smaller veins that eventually grow to the skin. When they get to the skin, they grow on the underside of the skin in a squiggly fashion, called a spider vein. These veins, when they are small (1-4 mm in diameter) can be treated with sclerotherapy (injected with chemicals such as sotradecol, hypertonic saline, etc) or treated with a long pulse Nd Yag Laser. IPL is a poor choice for leg veins due to the high probabilty of causing hyper or hypo pigmentation. When they are larger than 4mm in diameter, they are much more difficult to treat, but they can be successfully treated with EVLT (Endo Vascular Laser Therapy). With EVLT, a laser is inserted into the vein, and as it is withdrawn, the laser "cooks" the inside of the vein causing it to collapse. If the veins are huge (greater than 1-2 cm in diameter), then even that might not work. At that point, surgery called varicose vein stripping is usually needed. Because the leaky valves that caused the problem are not treatable, spider veins almost always come back eventually. On the other hand, eventually might mean many years, especially if you don't get pregnant and you maintain ideal body weight.

Facial spider veins are acutally small arterioles that have much greater internal pressure. IPL works well on the face because facial skin is MUCH more resistant to hypo and hyperpigmentation. Telangectasias on the face are generally not treated with an Nd YAG or sclerotherapy due to the increased chance of permanent linear depressions that occur with obliterating small arterioles. Chronic inflamation of the skin such as Rosacea aggravate the facial skin and may lead to telangectasias. It's best to treat the skin problems first and then try to fix the telangectasias.

There other light based treatments for spider veins that available, but the above should give you a good place to start asking questions.

Mike
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claudek



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike,
You sure seem to know your stuff..Maybe you a doctor?
I'm on my 3rd day after IPL Photoderm and my face is already less swolen and purpleish (pulpura maybe) color is going more into red and not as bad. I am just hoping one shot at this may do the damage as I sure had to hide out for two days after the procedure..Looked really scary.I almost am thinking this laser clinic shot too much energy from the beam? I do not read so many stories of so much bruising and purple effect sunch as mine after IPL. I read on all these laser clinics that one can just go back into the job and feel fine..no downtime..I do not agree with that, but need more user experienced input here. Maybe there are some lasers do not make one look bad after. I am told the blood and veins have to be absorbed back into the body.
I was also told Irene Eris K line is excellent for keeping down the veins-prevention and even less visible Capilaries -K
http://www.pharmaceris.pl/en/produkt.php?id=32

below is me after laser treatment (day1)..no it is not skin cancer :)
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