Smart Skin Care Forums
Home  -   Forum Index  -   Search  -   Register  -   Profile  -   Log in  -   FAQ  -   Contact Us

Question for Dr.T
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Smart Skin Care Forum Index -> Skin Rejuvenation / Anti-Aging
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:02 pm    Post subject: Question for Dr.T Reply with quote

Dr.T,

Is something I want to avoid as far as the hayflick limit is concerned:


Soy rice peptides stimulate fibroblast proliferation and increase collagen and elastin synthesis and have been shown to dramatically reduce dark circles and puffiness around the eyes
Back to top
View user's profile
drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3251

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally, agents that stimulate fibroblast proliferation can help if used short-term to revitalize the skin, etc., but long-term, use may not be a good idea due to Hayflick limit and other considerations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.T,

What is a person to use that in some way doesn't stimulate fibroblast proliferation? I am getting discouraged because I use retinol that I now started using JUST a couple of times a week to avoid future problems, I now find out that the REGUAGE (soy and rice peptides) in my eye cream probably shouldn't be used long term, and the butcher's broom that is also in my eye cream shouldn't be used long term, UGH. My eye cream consists of the following at present: A base cream (distilled water,olive oil, grapeseed oil,emulsifying wax nf, vegetable glycerin, citric acid, sodium hydroxmethyglycinate which is a preservative derived from glycine) to which I then add:

horsechestnut extract, hesperidine, baicalin(skullcap), eyeseryl (tetrapeptide), REGUAGE (rice and soy peptides), argan oil, CoQ10, alpha lipoic acid, magnesium abscorbyl phosphate.

Dr T, Can you please tell me your thoughts on this eye cream besides the soy and rice peptides?

***the Baicalin is noted to offset skin cell senescense:

Here is the article:



Have you ever heard the term senescence?

It’s a synonym for aging.

Senescence describes the state of our cells once they’ve reached the end of their life.

Why is this important to you? Because it means your skin no longer produces enough new, healthy cells and begins to sag, wrinkle and look older.

Skullcap

The beautiful skullcap herb has a powerful skin-restoring nutrient.


But there’s a plant nutrient not very well know in the West that offsets this effect. The root it comes from has been used for thousands of years for other health benefits … and now we’re finding that it helps restore your skin to a much younger age. It’s a proven cellular regenerator.

The effect has a lot to do with the shortening of your telomeres. These are found at the end of your DNA. Senescence (aging) occurs when your telomeres get to a critically short length.

This erosion of telomere length is especially important in your fibroblasts – the skin cells that provide structure, strength and resilience. Unfortunately, senescent fibroblasts tend to win out over young ones. This makes for a gradual loss of the characteristics of young skin.

Fortunately for your skin, a flavone from an ancient and beautiful plant called Scutellaria baicalensis georgi (commonly called skullcap) can reverse the aging of your fibroblasts and restore their youthful strength.

Flavones are from the flavonoid group of plant nutrients. Flavones have so much therapeutic potential that they have become valuable targets for drug design, including drugs that will affect your DNA.

Drug companies are desperately trying to modify flavones and patent their own man-made versions. That way they can sell the synthetic form back to you at a huge profit.

What they aren’t telling you as you rub their mutant lab creation into your skin is that these drugs could only be a shadow of something nature has been producing for millions of years … something safer and potentially more effective.

I’m talking about baicalin.

Baicalin stops skin cell senescence by restoring the telomere length of their chromosomes. Then your skin can make healthy, youthful new cells and keep your skin acting years younger.

Obtained from the roots of scutellaria baicalensis, baicalin increases skin cell working life by about 10 per cent, delaying aging. Part of the way it does this is by restoring their telomeres.

In one study, researchers blasted skin cells with sunlight-like UV-A radiation. Skin cells without baicalin had their telomere lengths reduced by almost 70%. Baicalin was able to restore the telomeres to 65% of their original length, despite the damaging radiation.1

Baicalin also helps activate a set of anti-aging genes in skin cells called P53 genes that prevent cells from becoming senescent.

Baicalin can help repair DNA breaks and keep your skin cells youthful and healthy.2 This increases skin firmness and elasticity, improves skin restructuring, and increases the number of fibroblast duplications.

And in a recent study, baicalin protected skin from UV-B radiation that can cause photo aging and even skin cancer.

When researchers tried to age skin cells with ultraviolet radiation replicating overexposure to sunlight, the fibroblasts of skin cells treated with baicalin remained youthful and normal.3 The antioxidant power of baicalin completely protected the skin cells from free radical damage that causes premature aging of skin.

Another study found that pre-treating skin cells with baicalin protected them from the DNA damage caused by ultraviolet radiation.4

Baicalin has many other benefits, too … it’s a known memory-enhancer, for instance. What it does is keep the active peptides in your brain working for longer, keeping your memory fresh and sharp.5

Here are a few key points to know before you use baicalin:

1) You can buy fresh or dried scutellaria baicalensis leaves and dried powder online and in specialty stores.

2) There are 10 mg of baicalin in every gram of scutellaria baicalensis leaves.

3) As a supplement, you can get baicalin in an extract of scutellaria baicalensis. It’s known in Traditional Chinese Medicine as Huang Qin, and as skullcap in the U.S.

4) Some extracts are in liquid form, as a tincture, and you can also get it as capsules.

Make sure you are buying the leaves, or an extract of, scutellaria baicalensis. There is another kind of skullcap called Scutellaria lateriflor, but it’s not the same and does not have the same biological effect.


1.Min W, Gao Y, Lin B, Luo D. “Effects of baicalin on ultraviolet A-induced telomere damage in cultured human primary fibroblasts.” Chinese Journal of Dermatology 2011, 44(9) 639-642
2. Chen X, Nishida H, Konishi T. “Baicalin promoted the repair of DNA single strand breakage caused by H2O2 in cultured NIH3T3 fibroblasts.” Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 Feb;26(2):282-4.
3. Zhou B, Yin H, Xu Y, Wu D, Zhang Z, Yin Z, Permatasari F, Luo D. “Baicalin protects human skin fibroblasts from ultraviolet A radiation-induced oxidative damage and apoptosis.” Free Radic Res. 2012 Dec;46(12):1458-71.
4. Zhou B, Luo D, Wei F, Chen X, Gao J. “Baicalin protects human fibroblasts against ultraviolet B-induced cyclobutane pyrimidine dimers formation.” Arch Dermatol Res. 2008 Jul;300(6):331-4.
5. Morain P, Lestage P, De Nanteuil G, Jochemsen R, Robin J, Guez D, Boyer P. “S 17092: a prolyl endopeptidase inhibitor as a potential therapeutic drug for memory impairment.” CNS Drug Rev. 2002 Spring;8(1):31-52.
Back to top
View user's profile
drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3251

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, I know about cell senescence -- if fact, see my article about it: smartskincare.com/aging/aging-mechanisms_senescent-cells.html

Many antioxidants can slow down telomere shortening under damaging conditions because unchecked free radicals both induce proliferation and possibly also damage telomeres directly. However, I don't see any evidence that "baikalin" does anything more than that (i.e. that it can restore shortened telomeres) -- if there is, please post.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't asking if you ever heard the term cell senescence, that was actually part of the article asking that. I know that you are on top of that. I just wanted you to read the article. I don't have actual studies that prove Baicalin can offset senescence, just going by what I was reading on this particular webpage. I would love to hear that it does in fact do that but can't find a definitive answer. I was just venting my discouragement w some skincare ingredients. It is so hard to know what to use without later finding out that there is something wrong with that ingredient. Topical hormones, botanical oils, peptides, actives, etc....a lot of them use language like "cellular turnover" "cell renewal" "fibroblast proliferation",etc... Honestly, I am confused what to even use anymore. How do I go about finding out if ingredients like hesperidine and horsechestnut mess with fibroblasts? What about Estrogen or Progesterone? These are things I use.
Back to top
View user's profile
drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3251

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topical estrogen and progesterone may be useful for women who's own levels of these hormones are low, e.g. after the menopause. Whether they can benefit those with normal levels is unclear. Either way, topical estrogen has to be used very carefully, in very small amounts and ONLY under the supervision of a physician to make sure there are no systemic effects from topical use.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.T can you tell me what you personally would use( as far as ingredients) if you were formulating a d.i.y. eye cream for puffiness due to fluid retention? What ingredients would you feel safe about using?
Back to top
View user's profile
drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3251

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would first try non-topical means:

1) Sleep on your back and get enough sleep
2) Don't drink much fluids last few hours before bed at night
3) Check thyroid for possibly low function (TSH test)
4) If puffiness in the morning, cold tea bag compress
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you dr.T. I appreciate the non-topical help ideas. Here is a study regarding Baicalin that I came across. You may be able to better interpret it than myself:



ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4064963/


I took off the beginning of the link so I could post the link, hope it works.
Back to top
View user's profile
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is lengthy but it talks about how it can help with senescence.
Back to top
View user's profile
drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3251

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UV usually induces telomere shortening by inducing free radicals, which, in turn, induce cell proliferation leading to telomere shortening and earlier senescence.

Baikalin may work by simply neutralizing free radicals, similarly to some other anti-oxidants, like green tea actives or astahanthine, for example.

The study you posted indicates no effect of baikalin on fibroblast proliferation in the absence of UV and/or extra free radicals:

Quote:
However, Baicalin had no difference in the normal fibroblasts without UVB irradiation and long-term Baicalin incubation of UVB-SIPS fibroblasts gave no effects on the cell proliferation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for reading the study and giving me the interpretation
Back to top
View user's profile
dakota1



Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the question, should we be avoiding topicals, peptides, and actives that claim things like: "cellular turnover" "cell renewal" "fibroblast proliferation", "stimulates collagen production"?
Back to top
View user's profile
drtodorov
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 3251

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, stimulation of collagen production is not always associated with increased proliferation of fibroblasts. Second, a short term stimulation of proliferation can be beneficial in some conditions. But it would be wise to avoid excessive, long term stimulation of fibroblast proliferation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
LoveBuzz



Joined: 13 May 2014
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drtodorov wrote:
First of all, stimulation of collagen production is not always associated with increased proliferation of fibroblasts. Second, a short term stimulation of proliferation can be beneficial in some conditions. But it would be wise to avoid excessive, long term stimulation of fibroblast proliferation.


Just to confirm, Tazorac, Retin-A, CE Ferulic, MitoQ are all ok for long-term use?

My understanding is that all of these things prevent to a large degree telomere shortening. CE Ferulic would increase collagen production but this doesn't mean increased fibrolast proliferation, correct?
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Smart Skin Care Forum Index -> Skin Rejuvenation / Anti-Aging All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group